Äèñêóññèîííûé Êëóá Ðóññêîãî Ìåäèöèíñêîãî Ñåðâåðà

Âåðíóòüñÿ   Äèñêóññèîííûé Êëóá Ðóññêîãî Ìåäèöèíñêîãî Ñåðâåðà > Ôîðóìû âðà÷åáíûõ êîíñóëüòàöèé > Òåðàïèÿ > Ôîðóì äëÿ îáùåíèÿ âðà÷åé-òåðàïåâòîâ

Îòâåò
 
Îïöèè òåìû Ïîèñê â ýòîé òåìå Îïöèè ïðîñìîòðà
  #1  
Ñòàðûé 18.11.2011, 15:07
zxc19781978 zxc19781978 âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Íà÷èíàþùèé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 03.12.2010
Ãîðîä: Ðîñòîâ
Ñîîáùåíèé: 16
zxc19781978 î ðåïóòàöèè ýòîãî ó÷àñòíèêà íåëüçÿ ñêàçàòü íè÷åãî îïðåäåëåííîãî
äîçà àíàïðèëèíà

Çäðàâñòâóéòå óâàæàåìûå êîëëåãè õîòåëîñü ïîëó÷èòü îòâåò âîò íà êàêîé âîïîðîñ.  áîëüíèöå íàõîäèòñÿ áîëüíîé äèàãíîç: Öèððîç ïå÷åíè ñìåøàííîé (âèðóñíîé +òîêñèêîàëëèìåíòàðíîé) êàêîé èìåííî âèðóñ íå èçâåñòíî àíàëèç íà ìàðêåðû ãåïàòèòà â ðàáîòå, â àíàìíåçå êîëîëñÿ â òå÷åíèè 2-õ ëåò, ïîñëåäíèé ãîä çëîóïîòðåáëåíèå àëêîãîëåì. Îñëîæíåíèÿ Ïîðòàëüíàÿ ãïåðòåíçèÿ àñöèò âûðàæåííûé êîëè÷åñòâî æèäêîñòè â áðþøíîé ïîëîñòè áîëåå 5 ëèòðîâ (ïî äàííûì ÓÇÈ) îêðóæíîñòü æèâîòà ïðè ïîñòóïëåííèè 110 ñì âåñ 70 êã ðîñò 174 ñì ÔÃÄÑ ïîêà íå ïðîâåäåíî íåò âðà÷à ýíäîñêîïèñòà ïîëó÷àåò ëå÷åíèå ìåòðîíèäàçîë, ëàêòóëîçà, ôóðîñåìèä, ïðè ïîëó÷åíèè àëüáóìèíà ïðîêàïàåì ( àëüáóìèí êðîâè 21ã/ë) èìååòñÿ íåáîëüøàÿ àíåìèÿ ïîýòîìó â ëå÷åíè äîáàâëåí ñîðáèôåðÄóðóëåñ, âîïðîñ âîò â ÷¸ì êàêóþ ìàêñèìàëüíóþ ñóòî÷íóþ äîçó àíàïðèëèíà ìîæíî íàçíà÷èòü ñ öåëüþ ñíèæåíèÿ ïîðòàëüíîé ãèïåðòåíçèè. Äàâëåíèå ïðè ïîëó÷åíèè àíàïðèëèíà â äîçå 120ìã äåðæèò íà óðîâíå 120/70 ìì.ðò.ñò. ïóëüñ ó÷àùåí 92 óäàðà â ìèíóòó òàê êàê àñöèò áîëüøîé íî èìååòñÿ ïîëîæèòåëüíàÿ äèíàìèêà ïîòåðÿ â âåñå 4 êã, îêðóæíîñòü æèâîòà ñ 110 ñì äî 94 ñì ïîïðîáûâàë 120 ìã 3 ðàçà â äåíü â ñóòêè 360 ìã. ïóëüñ 72 óäàðà äàâëåíèå 100/60 ìì.ðò.ñò Ôóðîñåìèä â äîçå 80 ìã+âåðîøïèðîí 200ìã.
Ïî âîçìîæíîñòè õîòåëîñü áû óñëûøàòü ìíåíèÿ ñïåöèàëèñòîâ.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #2  
Ñòàðûé 20.11.2011, 07:18
GIZA GIZA âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Çàñëóæåííûé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 04.11.2007
Ãîðîä: ã. Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 957
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 3
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 255 ðàç(à) çà 251 ñîîáùåíèé
GIZA ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGIZA ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGIZA ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGIZA ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGIZA ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGIZA ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGIZA ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGIZA ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Íàðàùèâàòü äîçó àíàïðèëèíà ó òàêèõ áîëüíûõ îïàñíî. Îòñóòñòâèå ýôôåêòà - ïëîõàÿ åãî âñàñûâàåìîñòü â ýòèõ óñëîâèÿõ.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #3  
Ñòàðûé 20.11.2011, 15:25
zxc19781978 zxc19781978 âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Íà÷èíàþùèé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 03.12.2010
Ãîðîä: Ðîñòîâ
Ñîîáùåíèé: 16
zxc19781978 î ðåïóòàöèè ýòîãî ó÷àñòíèêà íåëüçÿ ñêàçàòü íè÷åãî îïðåäåëåííîãî
åñëè ìîæíî àðãóìåíòèðóéòå ñâîé îòâåò. Íà ôîíå ñíèæåíèÿ ôóíêöèè ïå÷åíè äîëæíà óâåëè÷èâàòñÿ áèîäîñòóïíîñòü ïðåïàðàòà, ( îí áóäåò àêêóìóëèðîâàòüñÿ â îðãàíèçìå) òîãäà ïî÷åìó íåò ýôôåêòà, èëè Âû èìååòå ââèäó, ÷òî â ñâÿçè ñ òåì, ÷òî íå ðàáîòàåò äåçèíòîêñèêàöèîííàÿ ôóíöèÿ ýòî ÷åðåâàòî íàðàñòàíèåì ïå÷¸íî÷íîé ýíöåôàëîïàòèè.
Åñëè ìîæíî ïîêîíêðåòíåå î äîçèðîâêàõ ó òàêèõ áîëüíûõ. Âåäü íàçíà÷àÿ àíàïðèëèí ïðåñëåäóåì öåëü ñíèæåíèÿ ïîðòàëüíîé ãèïðòåíçèè.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #4  
Ñòàðûé 20.11.2011, 19:40
GIZA GIZA âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Çàñëóæåííûé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 04.11.2007
Ãîðîä: ã. Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 957
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 3
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 255 ðàç(à) çà 251 ñîîáùåíèé
GIZA ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGIZA ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGIZA ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGIZA ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGIZA ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGIZA ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGIZA ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGIZA ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Ïðè öèððîçå ïå÷åíè óõóäøàåòñÿ îòâåäåíèå âåíîçíîé êðîâè è ëèìôìû, ÷òî ñïî-ñîáñòâóåò çàñòîéíûì ÿâëåíèÿì â ÆÊÒ è, êàê ñëåäñòâèå, íàðóøåíèå âñàñûâàíèÿ (âêëþ÷àÿ ëåêàðñòâåííûå ñðåäñòâà). Óõóäøàåòñÿ è ðàáîòà ïî÷åê, èõ êðîâîñíàáæå-íèå. Ýòè ïðîáëåìû ñ ïî÷êàìè è íàêîïëåíèå ñîëåé íàòðèÿ ìîãóò áûòü îòïðàâíûìè òî÷êàìè ðàçâèòèÿ àñöèòà ïðè öèððîçå ïå÷åíè.
Êîíñåðâàòèâíîå ëå÷åíèå äîëæíî áûòü íàïðàâëåíî íà îñíîâíîå çàáîëåâàíèå. Åñëè ýòî êàðäèàëüíûé öèððîç, ìîæíî β-áëîêàòîðû, íî íå â çàïðåäåëüíûõ äîçàõ. Åñëè äðóãîé ýòèîëîãèè (À)ñöèò ïðèìåíÿþò ìî÷åãîííûå ñðåäñòâà, àíòàãîíèñòû àëüäîñòåðîíà
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #5  
Ñòàðûé 20.11.2011, 21:17
Shahla Shahla âíå ôîðóìà
ÂÐÀ×
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 10.04.2008
Ãîðîä: Áàêó
Ñîîáùåíèé: 1,732
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 460 ðàç(à) çà 445 ñîîáùåíèé
Shahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåShahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåShahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåShahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåShahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåShahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåShahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåShahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Ñóäÿ ïî ëèòåðàòóðå, ïðèìåíåíèå íåñåëåêòèâíûõ ÁÀÁ ïðè äåêîìïåíñèðîâàííîì öèððîçå (íàïðèìåð, ñ àñöèòîì èëè ïå÷åíî÷íîé ýíöåôàëîïàòèåé â àíàìíåçå), ïðèâîäèò ê óõóäøåíèþ àñöèòà è/èëè ýíöåôàëîïàòèè, ïàöèåíòû íå ïåðåíîñÿò ýòè ïðåïàðàòû õîðîøî.
Âîçìîæíàÿ ïðè÷èíà- ïîòåíöèàëüíûé ðèñê óìåíüøåíèÿ ïåðôóçèè ïî÷åê, è áåç òîãî ðàáîòàþùèõ ïîä ïðåññèíãîì, è ñïîñîáíîñòü ïî÷åê îáåñïå÷èâàòü íàòðèéóðåç óæå íàðóøåíà. Ïðè ýòîì äîçèðîâêè ÁÀÁ íå îáñóæäàþòñÿ, òîëüêî öåëåñîîáðàçíîñòü èõ ïðèìåíåíèÿ âîîáùå.
Ìåñòî ÁÀÁ ó ýòîé ãðóïïû áîëüíûõ- ïåðâè÷íàÿ (èíîãäà âòîðè÷íàÿ) ïðîôèëàêòèêà êðîâîòå÷åíèé ó ïàöèåíòîâ ñ êîìïåíñèðîâàííûì öèððîçîì è âûðàæåííûìè âàðèêîçàìè ïèùåâîäà

Ñóùåñòâóþò òàêæå èññëåäîâàíèÿ, ãäå ïðèìåíåíèå íåñåëåêòèâíûõ ÁÀÁ ïðè äåêîìïåíñèðîâàííîì öèððîçå óõóäøàëî ïðîãíîç, íî ýòè èññëåäîâàíèÿ òðåáóþò ïîäòâåðæäåíèé.
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Èñðàôèëîâà Øàõëà Þñèôîâíà.
Òåðàïåâò, ïóëüìîíîëîã.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #6  
Ñòàðûé 21.11.2011, 06:26
zxc19781978 zxc19781978 âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Íà÷èíàþùèé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 03.12.2010
Ãîðîä: Ðîñòîâ
Ñîîáùåíèé: 16
zxc19781978 î ðåïóòàöèè ýòîãî ó÷àñòíèêà íåëüçÿ ñêàçàòü íè÷åãî îïðåäåëåííîãî
Ñïàñèáî çà îòâåò. Õîòÿ áîëüíîé â íàñòîÿùåå âðåìÿ îò ïðîâåäåíèÿ ÔÃÄÑ îòêàçàëñÿ ñðàçó îãîâîðþñü ýíöåôàëîïàòèÿ I ñò, íî ñóäÿ ïî àñöèòó ïðè÷¸ì åñòü òåíäåíöèÿ ê òîìó, ÷òî îí ðåôðàêòåðíûé ñòàë âåñ áîëüíîãî è îêðóæíîñòü æèâîòà íåñêîëüêî äíåé îñòà¸òñÿ íà îäíîé öèôðå âñ¸ æå åñòü áîëüøàÿ âåðîÿòíîñòü â òîì, ÷òî âàðèêîç âåí ïèùåâîäà áóäåò íèêàê íå ìåíüøå 2-3 ñò ñêîðåå âñåãî 3 ñò. Âîò ïî÷åìó è èä¸ò ðå÷ü î äîçèðîâêè àíàïðèëèíà òî ÷òî ñòðàäàþò ïî÷êè ñîãëàñåí íî âåäü è ïðè ïðèìåíåíèè ìî÷åãîííûõ ïðè÷¸ì äîçû âûíóæäåí íàðàùèâàòü ìîæåò áûòü ãåïàòîðåíàëüíûé ñèíäðîì. Òåïåðü åñëè ìîæíî ññûëêó íà ëèòåðàòóðíûå äàííûå î öåëåñîîáðàçíîñòè ïðèìåíåíèÿ àíàïðèëèíà ó òàêèõ áîëüíûõ.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #7  
Ñòàðûé 21.11.2011, 12:56
Shahla Shahla âíå ôîðóìà
ÂÐÀ×
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 10.04.2008
Ãîðîä: Áàêó
Ñîîáùåíèé: 1,732
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 460 ðàç(à) çà 445 ñîîáùåíèé
Shahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåShahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåShahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåShahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåShahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåShahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåShahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåShahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Äàííûå âçÿòû èç Up-to-date, à ýòî íàäåæíûé èñòî÷íèê.

Âîò åùå ññûëêà, òàì î ÁÀÁ íè ñëîâà, [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]

Ïðîñìîòðèòå ãàéäû ïî öèððîçó [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]
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Èñðàôèëîâà Øàõëà Þñèôîâíà.
Òåðàïåâò, ïóëüìîíîëîã.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #8  
Ñòàðûé 21.11.2011, 14:39
zxc19781978 zxc19781978 âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Íà÷èíàþùèé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 03.12.2010
Ãîðîä: Ðîñòîâ
Ñîîáùåíèé: 16
zxc19781978 î ðåïóòàöèè ýòîãî ó÷àñòíèêà íåëüçÿ ñêàçàòü íè÷åãî îïðåäåëåííîãî
Ñïàñèáî áîëüøîå çà ññûëêè, òîëüêî âîò êàê òî ñêóïî íàïèñàíî. Ñåãîäíÿ âûáðàë âðåìÿ ïîäîø¸ë ê ñïåöèàëèñòàì ïî ãàñòðîýíòåðîëîãèè íàñ÷¸ò àíàïðèëèíà ãîâîðÿò, ÷òî åñëè ïåðåíîñèò âûñîêèå äîçû òî ìîæíî íàçíà÷àòü 240-360 ìã åñëè ïîðòàëüíàÿ ãèïåðòåíçèÿ åñòü íó à ïðè öèððîçå êóäà îíà äåíåòüñÿ.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #9  
Ñòàðûé 21.11.2011, 15:06
Shahla Shahla âíå ôîðóìà
ÂÐÀ×
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 10.04.2008
Ãîðîä: Áàêó
Ñîîáùåíèé: 1,732
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 460 ðàç(à) çà 445 ñîîáùåíèé
Shahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåShahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåShahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåShahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåShahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåShahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåShahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåShahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Ìîæåò ó âàñ ýòà êíèãà åñòü, íà âñÿêèé ñëó÷àé, "Ñåêðåòû ãàñòðîýíòåðîëîãèè", Ïèòåð Ð. Ìàê Íåëëè, 2005, ïåðåâîä ñ àíãë.:
Ñ ÷åãî íà÷èíàþò ëå÷åíèå ÖÏ ñ àñöèòîì?
Îãðàíè÷èâàþò ïðèåì íàòðèÿ ñ ïèùåé äî 50-88 ìýêâ/ñóò (ïðàâäà íå çíàþ, ñêîëüêî ýòî), íàçíà÷àþò äèóðåòèêè. Âûðàæåííîå îãðàíè÷åíèå ïðèåìà íàòðèÿ ìîæåò ïðîâîöèðîâàòü àíîðåêñèþ è èñòîùåíèå. Åñëè êîíöåíòðàöèÿ íàòðèÿ â êðîâè áîëåå 120 ìýêâ/ë, îãðàíè÷åíèÿ ïðèåìà æèäêîñòè îáû÷íî íå òðåáóåòñÿ.  15-20% ñëó÷àåâ îòðèöàòåëüíûé áàëàíñ íàòðèÿ îáåñïå÷èâàþò áåç ïîìîùè äèóðåòèêîâ, òîëüêî ïóòåì îãðàíè÷åíèÿ åãî ïîñòóïëåíèÿ â îðãàíèçì. Îäíàêî, ïîñêîëüêó â 80-85% ñëó÷àåâ äèóðåòèêè íåîáõîäèìû, öåëåñîîáðàçíî íàçíà÷àòü èçõ âñåì áîëüíûì. Âíà÷àëå íàçíà÷àþò ñïèðîíîëàêòîí ïî 100 ìã è ôóðîñåìèä ïî 40 ìã âíóòðü ïî óòðàì; åñëè ÷åðåç 2-3 ñóòîê ñóòî÷íàÿ ýêñêðåöèÿ íàòðèÿ íå óâåëè÷èâàåòñÿ èëè ìàññà òåëà íå óìåíüøàåòñÿ, äîçû ïðåïàðàòîâ óâåëè÷èâàþò ïî 100 ìã/ñóò è 40 ìã/ñóò ñîîòâåòñòâåííî äî îáåñïå÷åíèÿ îòðèöàòåëüíîãî áàëàíñà (âûäåëåíèå > ïîñòóïëåíèÿ)íàòðèÿ èëè ñíèæåíèÿ ìàññû òåëà. Ìàêñèìàëüíûå äîçû: 400 ìã/ñóò ñïèðîíîëàêòîíà è 160 ìã ôóðîñåìèäà. Âî âðåìÿ ëå÷åíèÿ ðåãóëÿðíî êîíòðîëèðóþò ìàññó òåëà è ñóòî÷íóþ ýêñêðåöèþ íàòðèÿ ñ ìî÷îé. Ïîñëå êóïèðîâàíèÿ àñöèòà äëÿ ïðîôèëàêòèêè åãî ðåöèäèâèðîâàíèÿ íàçíà÷àþò ïîääåðæèâàþùèå äîçû äèóðåòèêîâ.

×åñòíî ïðîñìîòðåëà âñþ ãëàâó "Àñöèò", î ÁÀÁ íè ñëîâà.
__________________
Èñðàôèëîâà Øàõëà Þñèôîâíà.
Òåðàïåâò, ïóëüìîíîëîã.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #10  
Ñòàðûé 21.11.2011, 20:21
zxc19781978 zxc19781978 âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Íà÷èíàþùèé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 03.12.2010
Ãîðîä: Ðîñòîâ
Ñîîáùåíèé: 16
zxc19781978 î ðåïóòàöèè ýòîãî ó÷àñòíèêà íåëüçÿ ñêàçàòü íè÷åãî îïðåäåëåííîãî
Ñïàñèáî çà îòâåò. íàçíà÷àÿ àíàïðèëèí òî åñòü íåñåëåêòèâíûå áåòà-àäðåíîáëîêàòîðû ïðèñëåäóåì ëèøü îäíó öåëü ïðåäîòâðàòèòü êðîâîòå÷åíèå èç âàðèêîçíî ðàñøèðåííûõ âåí, õîòÿ áîëüíîé è íå äàë âûïîëíèòü ÔÃÄÑ íî ïî óçè ïîðòàëüíàÿ ãèïåðòåíçèÿ, åñòü ñëåäîâàòåëüíî ïîäàçðåâàòü âàðèêîç âåí íóæíî òåì áîëåå ïðèñóòñòâóåò ðåôðàêòåðíûé àñöèò, ÷òî êàñàåòñÿ ëèòåðàòóðû òî íàïðèìåð Áåëîðóññêàÿ øêîëà À.Í. Îêîðîêîâ â ïðèíöèïå [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ] ññûëêà íà öèððîç, äà è òàê çàäàéòå âîïðîñ ëå÷åíèå ïîðòàëüíîé ãèïåðòåíçèè ïî ýòîìó è âîïðîñ ïðî äîçó àíàïðèëèíà. Ñîâñåì îñòàëüíûì ñîãëàñåí äèåòà, ìî÷åãîííûå êàê âûñøèé ïèëîòàæ îïåðàöèè, êàê êàçóèñòèêà òðàíñïëàíòàöèÿ ïå÷åíè. Òîëüêî âîò áåäà àñöèò çà÷àñòóþ êóïèðîâàòü íå óäàåòñÿ, êàê è îñòàíîâèòü êðîâîòå÷åíèå, à òîò æå àíàïðèëèí ïî íåêîòîðûì äàííûì êàê ïèøóò ñíèæàåò ðèñê íà 30%-40% ïðîöåíòîâ.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #11  
Ñòàðûé 17.12.2011, 22:50
Dtver Dtver âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Êàíäèäàò â âåòåðàíû ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 04.03.2004
Ãîðîä: ÐÔ, Òâåðü
Ñîîáùåíèé: 1,651
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 2
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 19 ðàç(à) çà 19 ñîîáùåíèé
Dtver ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDtver ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDtver ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDtver ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDtver ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDtver ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDtver ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDtver ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDtver ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDtver ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDtver ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò Shahla Ïîñìîòðåòü ñîîáùåíèå
×åñòíî ïðîñìîòðåëà âñþ ãëàâó "Àñöèò", î ÁÀÁ íè ñëîâà.
Ì.á. èìåëî ñìûñë ïîñìîòðåòü ãëàâó î ïîðòàëüíîé ãèïåðòåíçèè? )))
 17-ì Õàððèñîíå:
"Treatment for variceal hemorrhage as a complication of portal hypertension is divided into two main categories: (1) primary prophylaxis and (2) prevention of re-bleeding once there has been an initial variceal hemorrhage. Primary prophylaxis requires routine screening by endoscopy of all patients with cirrhosis. Once varices that are at increased risk for bleeding are identified, then primary prophylaxis can be achieved either through nonselective beta blockade or by variceal band ligation. Numerous placebo-controlled clinical trials of either propranolol or nadolol have been reported in the literature. The most rigorous studies were those that only included patients with significantly enlarged varices or with hepatic vein pressure gradients >12 mmHg. Patients treated with beta blockers have a lower risk of variceal hemorrhage than those treated with placebo over 1 and 2 years of follow-up. There is also a decrease in mortality related to variceal hemorrhage."
Âåäü ðå÷ü øëà èìåííî î ïðîôèëàêòèêå êðîâîòå÷åíèé...
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #12  
Ñòàðûé 17.12.2011, 23:11
Shahla Shahla âíå ôîðóìà
ÂÐÀ×
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 10.04.2008
Ãîðîä: Áàêó
Ñîîáùåíèé: 1,732
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 460 ðàç(à) çà 445 ñîîáùåíèé
Shahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåShahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåShahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåShahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåShahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåShahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåShahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåShahla ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Áîëüøîå ñïàñèáî çà ññûëêó. ÔÃÄÑ íå ïðîâîäèëañü âñå æå. Ìîé îòâåò áûë îñíîâàí íà ýòîì:

Non-selective beta blockers (eg, propranolol and nadolol) block the adrenergic dilatory tone in mesenteric arterioles resulting in unopposed alpha adrenergic mediated vasoconstriction and therefore a decrease in portal inflow. These are the only drugs recommended for prophylaxis against a first variceal hemorrhage. However, the report of increased mortality rates in patients with refractory ascites who received nonselective beta blockers has called their safety into question.


The routine use of beta blockers in patients with cirrhosis with refractory ascites has been called into question based upon a prospective study of 151 patients with cirrhosis and refractory ascites. Median survival was significantly longer in patients who did not receive propranolol versus those who did (20 versus 5 months).
__________________
Èñðàôèëîâà Øàõëà Þñèôîâíà.
Òåðàïåâò, ïóëüìîíîëîã.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #13  
Ñòàðûé 14.03.2012, 11:38
Àâàòàð äëÿ STc
STc STc âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âðà÷-ó÷àñòíèê ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 07.09.2009
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 1,196
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 7
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 346 ðàç(à) çà 331 ñîîáùåíèé
STc ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSTc ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSTc ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSTc ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSTc ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSTc ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSTc ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSTc ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSTc ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSTc ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSTc ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Òîëüêî ñåé÷àñ îáðàòèë âíèìàíèå íà ýòó òåìó...
Âñå áîëüøå ôàêòîâ, ÷òî ïðîïðàíîëîë è íàäîëîë - îñíîâà ïðîôèëàêòèêè â ãðóïïàõ âûñîêîãî ðèñêà êðîâîòå÷åíèÿ è äëÿ âòîðè÷íîé ïðîôèëàêòèêè. Âûñîêèé ðèñê - áîëüøèå âåíû, îñîáåííî ñ "êðàñíûìè ïÿòíàìè" ïðè ýíäîñêîïèèè.
Ïî èçîñîðáèò äèíèòðàòó - ïîõîæå îí ñíèæàåò ðèñê, íî ïîáî÷íûå ýôôåêòû ïåðåâåøèâàþò âîçìîæíóþ ïîëüçó.
Íåñåëåêòèâíûå á-áëîêåðû ðàâíû ïî ýôôåêòèâíîñòè ýíäîñêîïè÷åñêîìó ëèãèðîâàíèþ è îáà ýòè ìåòîäà ïðåâîñõîäÿò ñêëåðîçèðîâàíèå âåí.
Ïîðòîñèñòåìíîå øóíòèðîâàíèå åùå áîëåå ýôôåêòèâíî, íî â âèäó ïîáî÷íûõ ýôôåêòîâ ÿâëÿåòñÿ âûáîðîì âòîðîãî ðÿäà.
×òî êàñàåòÿ äîç á-áëîêåðîâ, î÷åíü ïîñòåïåííî èõ íàäî íàçàíà÷àòü, íó íèêàê íå 240/ñóòêè, ðåêîìåíäóþò äîçó, ñíèæàþùóþ ×ÑÑ íà 25%, â íåñêîëüêî ýòàïîâ ×ÑÑ ñíèçèòü ìèíèìàëüíî äî 55/ìèí.

Íèæå ññûëêè, ÷òî áûëè ïîä ðóêîé; íåäàâíî ñìîòðåë ñâåæèé àçèàòñêèé ãàéä, ãäå ýòî íàèáîëåå ïîäðîáíî èçëîæåíî, íî ñåé÷àñ åãî ïî÷åìó-òî íå íàøåë, õîòÿ è ñîõðàíÿë, âèäíî íå ñóäüáà.
Öèòàòà:
Endoscopic band ligation versus pharmacological therapy for variceal bleeding in cirrhosis: a meta-analysis.

Both EBL and beta-blockers may be considered first-line treatments to prevent first variceal bleeding, whereas betablockers plus isosorbide mononitrate may be the best choice for the prevention of rebleeding.
[Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]

Öèòàòà:
Variceal rebleeding is a very frequent and severe complication in cirrhotic patients; therefore, its prevention should be mandatory. Lately several studies demonstrated that the rate of rebleeding was decreased by 40% and overall survival is improved by 20% with beta-blockers. However, this treatment presents some problems, such as the number of nonresponders and contraindications for its use. Recent trials found that the combination of beta-blockers with mononitrate of isosorbide to be superior to beta-blockade alone. Furthermore, endoscopic band ligation also shown to decrease the frequency of rebleeding, complications, and death compared with sclerotherapy and should be the preferred endoscopic treatment. In addition, the comparison between combined pharmacologic treatment with endoscopic treatment present similar rebleeding and mortality rates. More recently, the addition of nadolol to endoscopic band ligation increased the efficacy of endoscopy alone in the prevention of variceal rebleeding. These studies suggest that banding plus drugs could be the treatment of choice for the prophylaxis of rebleeding. When these treatments fail, the recommendation is to use transjugular intrahepatic portosystemic shunt (TIPS) or surgical shunts. Both treatments are effective in preventing rebleeding; however, they are associated with a greater risk of encephalopathy. The comparison of portacaval shunts with TIPS demonstrated that TIPS patients presented higher rebleeding, treatment failure, and transplantation. Another randomized controlled trial comparing distal splenorenal shunt with TIPS shows that variceal rebleeding was similar in both groups without differences in encephalopathy and mortality. The only difference observed was the higher rate of reintervention observed in the TIPS group to maintain his patency.
[Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]

Öèòàòà:
Clinical Practice: The Approach in Patients with Cirrhosis and Various Stages of Varices/Hemorrhage
Patients with Cirrhosis But No Varices (see Figure 4a in the original guideline document)
  • Beta-blockers do not prevent varices
  • Repeat EGD in 3 years
  • Immediate EGD if hepatic decompensation occurs
Patients with Cirrhosis and Small Varices, But No Hemorrhage (see Figure 4b in the original guideline document)
  • Increased risk of hemorrhage: Child B/C or presence of red wale marks: nonselective beta-blockers for prevention of first variceal hemorrhage
  • No increased risk: beta-blockers can be used - long-term benefits not established
  • Not receiving beta-blockers: Repeat EGD in 2 years
  • In case of hepatic decompensation: EGD at once; repeat annually
  • Patients on beta-blockers: follow-up EGD not necessary
Because many patients do not respond to beta-blocker treatment or bleeding prophylaxis, it is recommended that EGD be repeated after 2 years (as for those not receiving beta-blockers).
Patients with Cirrhosis and Medium or Large Varices, But No Hemorrhage (see Figure 4c in the original guideline document)
  • High risk of hemorrhage: Child B/C or variceal red wale markings: beta-blockers (propranolol or nadolol) or endoscopic variceal ligation (EVL) recommended for prevention of first variceal hemorrhage
  • Not at highest risk: Child A patients and no red signs: Nonselective beta-blockers (propranolol or nadolol) preferred
  • In case of contraindications/intolerance/noncompliance, consider EVL
  • Noncardioselective beta-blockers (propranolol or nadolol), starting at a low dosage, if necessary increasing the dose step by step until a reduction in the resting heart rate of 25%, but not lower than 55 beats/min, is reached.
  • In comparison with beta-blockers, endoscopic variceal ligation was found to reduce bleeding episodes and severe adverse events significantly, but it had no effect on the mortality rate.

[Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]

Êîììåíòàðèè ê ñîîáùåíèþ:
Shahla îäîáðèë(à):
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