#31
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Ýòî Âàøå ëè÷íîå ìíåíèå. Íà ñàìîì äåëå, èìåííî àáñîëþòíàÿ òîæäåñòâåííîñòü òåðìèíà èñòîðè÷åñêàÿ (ò.å. èñêîííàÿ) îñîáåííîñòü ýòîãî îïðåäåëåíèÿ.
[Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ] È íà ýòó ïîëíóþ àíàëîãèþ óæå íå ìîãóò ïîâëèÿòü íèêàêèå íîâûå ìåòà-àíàëèçû. Ìîæåò ïîÿâèòüñÿ íîâûé òåðìèí, íî ñòàðûé èçìåíèòü óæå íå ïîëó÷èòüñÿ. Òàê áîëåå íîâûé òåðìèí CVD (cardiovasclar disease) ìíîãèìè àíãëîÿçû÷íûìè ó÷åíûìè (ýòî ïîäòâåðäÿò ó÷àñòíèêè ìåæäóíàðîäíûõ êîíôåðåíöèé) ïðèìåíÿåòñÿ â êîíòåêñòå CAD, õîòÿ ýòî äåéñòâèòåëüíî íå îäíî è òîæå. |
#32
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Äà. Òàê ìåíÿ ó÷èëè: àòåðîñêëåðîç êîðîíàðíûõ àðòåðèé â ïîäàâëÿþùåì áîëüøèíñòâå ñëó÷àåâ ïàòîãåíåòè÷åñêàÿ îñíîâà ÈÁÑ, íåçàâèñèìî îò åãî âûðàæåííîñòè. È, ñàìîå ãëàâíîå , åòî íå ïðîòèâîðå÷èò ñîâðåìåííûì êîíöåïöèÿì: ìîæåòå ïèñàòü ÈÁÑ (ÊÁÑ), ìîæåòå CVD, ãëàâíîå - ëå÷èòü ïðàâèëüíî (êàê ÿ ãîâîðþ ïàöèåíòàì, îñòàíîâèòü èëè ðàññîñàòü áëÿøêó), ñîãëàñíî ïîñëåäíèì ãàéäàì.
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#33
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#34
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Öèòàòà:
Äèàãíîç, êîòîðûé ÿ ñôîðìóëèðîâàë íà ãîñýêçàìåíå ïî òåðàïèè: "ÈÁÑ. Àòåðîñêëåðîç àîðòû è âåíå÷íûõ àðòåðèé. Êàðäèîñêëåðîç àòåðîñêëåðîòè÷åñêèé. ÕÑÍ1. WPW ôåíîìåí." Ïðîøëî ïî÷òè 35 ëåò. Ïîõîæå, îí è ñåé÷àñ áû ïðîêàíàë. |
#35
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Öèòàòà:
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#36
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Íåñìîòðÿ íà ññûëêó íà ðåêîìåíäàöèè, ïîíèìàíèå ôîðìóëèðîâêè äèàãíîçà, à îòñþäà è ëå÷åáíîé ñòðàòåãèè ðàñõîäÿòñÿ
Ãèïåðòîíè÷åñêàÿ áîëåçíü 2 ñòàäèè. Äîñòèãíóòàÿ ñòåïåíü àðòåðèàëüíîé ãèïåðòîíèè 1, âûñîêèé ðèñê ñåðäå÷íî-ñîñóäèñòûõ îñëîæíåíèé. Íà÷àëüíûé àòåðîñêëåðîç àîðòû, êîðîíàðíûõ, áðàõèîöåôàëüíûõ àðòåðèé. Ãèïåðëèïèäåìèÿ II À òèïà. Ôåíîìåí ÂÏÂ. Äåéñòâèòåëüíî, èíòåðåñíî, íà îñíîâàíèè ÷åãî áîëüíîìó ïîñòàâèëè ÕÑÍ 1 ñòåïåíè è íàëè÷èå êàðäèîñêëåðîçà? |
#37
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À ìîæíî ïîñìîòðåòü ïðîòîêîë ×Ï-ÝÔÈ (ÿ åãî òàê è íå íàøåë - ìîæåò ïëîõî èñêàë)? Ïðåýêçèòàöèÿ ó íåãî, íà ìîé âçãëÿä, äîâîëüíî íåóáåäèòåëüíà. Êðîìå òîãî òàê (êàê íåáîëüøàÿ ñòóïåíüêà â íà÷àëüíîé ÷àñòè êîìïëåêñà) ìîæåò âûãëÿäåòü ìåñòíîå íàðóøåíèå âíóòðèæåëóäî÷êîâîé ïðîâîäèìîñòè; êîíå÷íî PQ íåìíîãî ìåíüøå íîðìû, íî ýòî åùå íå äàåò ïðàâà ãîâîðèòü î WPW. Íà ñëîâàõ áûëî ñêàçàíî, ÷òî ïðèçíàêè ïðåäâîçáóæäåíèÿ ïðè ×ÏÝÑ îòñóòñòâóþò - òîãäà ïî÷åìó ðå÷ü èäåò î WPW?  îñòàëüíîì, ñ äèàãíîçîì DrMaya ñîãëàñåí.
P.S. Ìíå êàæåòñÿ, äîâîëüíî ñòðàííî ãîâîðèòü îá ÈÁÑ ó ïàöèåíòà áåç êëèíèêè ñ íåñòåíîçèðóþùèì àòåðîñêëåðîçîì êîðîíàðíûõ àðòåðèé... |
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#38
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ÌÊÁ-10
ÈÁÑ Àòåðîñêëåðîòè÷åñêàÿ áîëåçíü ñåðäöà [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ] Ñëàâà áîãó, à òî ìíå âíóøèëè, ÷òî ìåíÿ íå ñóùåñòâóåò (ñ, êàê-òî òàê) |
#39
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[quote=Chevychelov;1660201]Î êàêîé ãèïåðäèàãíîñòèêå ìîæíî ãîâîðèòü ïðè íàëè÷èè ÊÀÃ. Íàäåþñü íèêòî íå ñïîðèò, ÷òî ó áîëüíîãî åñòü êîðîíàðíûé àòåðîñêëåðîç. À êàê âû åãî íàçîâåòå ÈÁÑ, ÊÁÑ, CAD èëè CVD â äàííîì ñëó÷àå íà ëå÷åíèå íå ïîâëèÿåò. Ëå÷åíèå öåëèêîì çàâèñèò îò òîãî, áóäåòå ëè âû îïèðàòüñÿ íà ãàéäû èëè íåò.
Ìíå êàæåòñÿ, âñå âàëèòü â îäíó êó÷ó òîæå áûâàåò íå î÷åíü ïîëåçíî. Ãàéäëàéíñ íå ïðèçûâàþò ïîäìåíÿòü êëèíè÷åñêèå äèàãíîçû çàêëþ÷åíèåì ÊÀÃ. ß ïîíèìàþ Âàøó ïîçèöèþ òàê: ëþáîé àòåðîñêëåðîç íóæíî ëå÷èòü, è âûÿâëåíèå åãî â ëþáîé ëîêàëèçàöèè è â ëþáîé ñòåïåíè âûðàæåííîñòè ÿâëÿåòñÿ îñíîâàíèåì äëÿ ïðîôèëàêòèêè èíôàðêòà (èíñóëüòà). Ïîñûë, áåçóñëîâíî, ïîíÿòåí, åñòü ðàçëè÷èÿ â ïîäõîäàõ ê íåîáõîäèìîé ìåðå ýòîãî ëå÷åíèÿ, ò.å., îáúåìå ïðîôèëàêòèêè. Íî íå äóìàþ, ÷òî ýòà ïîçèöèÿ ÿâëÿåòñÿ îñíîâàíèåì äëÿ îòîæäåñòâëåíèÿ âñåõ ñåðäå÷íî-ñîñóäèñòûõ çàáîëåâàíèé (CVD) ìåæäó ñîáîé, è ñ ÈÁÑ (ÑAD) â ÷àñòíîñòè. À òàêæå íàëè÷èÿ 30%-íîãî ñòåíîçà, êîòîðûé ñòåíîêàðäèþ íå âûçûâàåò, ñ ÈÁÑ - âñå-æå, êëèíè÷åñêèì ïîíÿòèåì, êàê íè êðóòè . |
#40
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Ïîçâîëþ ñåáå íåêîòîðûå èòîãè.
Îêàçûâàåòñÿ â ÌÊÁ10 (î êîòîðîé ìû çàáûëè) åñòü áîëåçíü ïîä êîäîì I25.1 ÈÁÑ. Àòåðîñêëåðîòè÷åñêàÿ áîëåçíü ñåðäöà. Chronic ischaemic heart disease I25.1 Atherosclerotic heart disease Coronary (artery): · atheroma · atherosclerosis · disease · sclerosis [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ] Äà, ýòî ñòàòèñòè÷åñêàÿ êëàññèôèêàöèÿ, íî áîëåçíü åñòü. Ïðîèëàêòèêà-òî - âòîðè÷íàÿ! |
#41
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Öèòàòà:
...èëè Âû ïîä âòîðè÷íîé ïðîôèëàêòèêîé ïîäðàçóìåâàåòå ëå÷åíèå àòåðîñêëåðîçà?!? Ïóñòü çàêèäàþò ìåíÿ ïîìèäîðàìè, ÍÎ ÿ ëè÷íî äàâíî çàáûë ïðî ÌÊÁ-10 è ñ÷èòàþ åå ìîðàëüíî óñòàðåâøåé êëàññèôèêàöèåé, êîòîðàÿ íå ñïîñîáíà óñïåâàòü çà äèíàìèêîé ïðåäñòàâëåíèé î ðàçëè÷íûõ íîçîëîãèÿõ (ê ïðèìåðó êëàññèôèêàöèÿ ôèáðèëëÿöèè ïðåäñåðäèé íà ìîåì êîðîòêîì âåêó ïðåîáðàæàëàñü óæå íå ðàç). ÈÌÕÎ, â äàííîì êîíêðåòíîì ñëó÷àå êîðîíàðíûé àòåðîñêëåðîç â äèàãíîçå íå ñîîòâåòñòâóåò ïîíÿòèþ î "Chronic ischaemic heart disease" (Ñ) è äîëæåí âûíîñèòüñÿ â äèàãíîç ïîä ìàðêîé Ìóëüòèôîêàëüíîãî àòåðîñêëåðîçà â âèäå ïåðå÷èñëåíèÿ ïîðàæåíèé ñîñóäèñòûõ áàññåéíîâ. ______________________________ ïðîøó ïðîùåíèÿ çà ìíîãàáóêàô |
#42
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êàñàòåëüíî ê ðàçäåëåíèþ ïåðâè÷íîé è âòîðè÷íîé ïðîôèëàêòèêè: ýôôåêòèâíîñòü/öåëåñîîáðàçíîñòü ïåðâè÷íîé ïðîôèëàêòèêè ñòàòèíàìè, àñïèðèíîì è èæå ñ íèìè îöåíèâàëè ïðè îòñóòñòâèè â àíàìíåçå èíôàðêòîâ/èíñóëüòîâ è ïðî÷èõ äîêàçàííûõ/óñòàíîâëåííûõ äèàãíîçîâ, ïîýòîìó íàçíà÷åíèå äàííûõ ïðåïàðàòîâ ó áîëüíûõ ñ íåìûìè èøåìèÿìè, èíñòðóìåíòàëüíî-îáíàðóæåííûì àòåðîñêëåðîçîì è ïðî÷. ÿâëÿåòñÿ ÏÅÐÂÈ×ÍÎÉ ïðoôèëàêòèêîé èíñóëüòà, èíôàðêòà âíåçàïíîé êîðîíàðíîé ñìåðòè (òâåðäûõ äèàãíîçîâ), à íå ïðîôèëàêòèêîé ïðîãðåññèðîâàíèÿ ðîñòà áëÿøêè, % ñòåíîçà è äð. ìÿãêèõ êëèí. ïðèçíàêîâ.
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Èñêðåííå, Âàäèì Âàëåðüåâè÷. |
#43
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Ìîæíî âåäü è äåëîì çàíÿòüñÿ - ïðîòîêîë ÝÔÈ, íàïðèìåð, "íàãðóçêó", è íà îñíîâàíèè ïîëó÷åííûõ äàííûõ (åñòü èøåìèÿ - íåò å¸ è ò.ä.) ëå÷èòü. Ëèáî ìîäèôèêàöèåé îáðàçà æèçíè ñ ìèíèìàëüíî íåîáõîäèìûì ìåäèêàìåíòîçíûì âìåøàòåëüñòâîì, ëèáî - ïîëíîöåííàÿ òåðàïèÿ ÈÁÑ, ÊÁÑ, CAD, CVD: "êàê õîòèòå íàçîâèòå - ïàöèåíòó ïîìîãèòå, åñëè íóæíî - îáúÿñíèòå." Ïî-ìîåìó, êîïàíèå â ãàéäàõ è ñõåìàõ, ïîèñêå îñîáîãî ñìûñëà â êàæäîé áóêâå (êàê áóäòî îíà íàïèñàíà áîãîì) äîñòèãëî êðàéíåé òî÷êè..
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#44
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Îöåíèâàÿ ãàéä
[Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ] ïîíèìàåøü, ÷òî òàêîå âòîðè÷íàÿ ïðîôèëàêòèêà ïî íàçâàíèþ AHA/ACCF Secondary Prevention and Risk Reduction Therapy for Patients With Coronary and Other Atherosclerotic Vascular Disease È ïî ñíîñêå â òàáëèöå for very high risk* patients *Presence of established CVD plus 1) multiple major risk factors (especially diabetes), 2) severe and poorly controlled risk factors (especially continued cigarette smoking), 3) multiple risk factors of the metabolic syndrome (especially high triglycerides 200 mg/dL plus non–HDL-C 130 mg/dL with low HDL-C 40 mg/dL), and 4) patients with ACSs. |
#45
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âîò è öèòàòà (ïîä÷åðêíóòî ìíîé) èç ññûëî÷êè (ñîîáùåíèå 9) ïî ñòàòèíîâîìó ìåòà-àíàëèçó, ÷òî åñòü â ïîëíîé âåðñèè:
Trials were considered to have enrolled participants at low cardiovascular risk if the 10-year risk of cardiovascular-related death or nonfatal myocardial infarction among participants was less than 20%, as assessed by extrapolation of observed risk in the control group of each trial. In general, this corresponded to participants who were free from cardiovascular disease (i.e., no prior acute coronary syndrome or coronary revascularization, no prior ischemic stroke and no prior revascularization or loss of limb owing to peripheral arterial disease) and diabetes.
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Èñêðåííå, Âàäèì Âàëåðüåâè÷. |