Äèñêóññèîííûé Êëóá Ðóññêîãî Ìåäèöèíñêîãî Ñåðâåðà

Âåðíóòüñÿ   Äèñêóññèîííûé Êëóá Ðóññêîãî Ìåäèöèíñêîãî Ñåðâåðà > Ôîðóìû âðà÷åáíûõ êîíñóëüòàöèé > Íåâðîëîãèÿ è íåéðîõèðóðãèÿ > Ôîðóì äëÿ îáùåíèÿ âðà÷åé íåâðîëîãîâ è íåéðîõèðóðãîâ

Ôîðóì äëÿ îáùåíèÿ âðà÷åé íåâðîëîãîâ è íåéðîõèðóðãîâ Ôîðóì ïðåäíàçíà÷åí äëÿ îáùåíèÿ âðà÷åé ìåæäó ñîáîé.

Îòâåò
 
Îïöèè òåìû Ïîèñê â ýòîé òåìå Îïöèè ïðîñìîòðà
  #1  
Ñòàðûé 18.03.2012, 10:03
tambofff tambofff âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Ïîñòîÿííûé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 25.11.2010
Ãîðîä: Òàìáîâ
Ñîîáùåíèé: 228
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 19
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 15 ðàç(à) çà 13 ñîîáùåíèé
tambofff ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò õîðîøóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
äàáèãàòðàí vs âàðôàðèí

1) [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]

2) íåïîíÿòíî, ïî÷åìó íå ñëåäóåò êîíòðîëèðîâàòü íè À×ÒÂ, íè ÒÂ:

- [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]
- [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]

3) âûõîäèò, òðîìáîëèçèñ â ñëó÷àå ðàçâèòèÿ ÎÍÌÊ áóäåò ïðîòèâîïîêàçàí - èìåþòñÿ ëè ðåêîìåíäàöèè íà ýòîò ñ÷¸ò?

4) ðàçíèöà â öåíå íà ìåñÿö - ïðèìåðíî 10 ðàç, õîòÿ 2500 â ìåñÿö - âïîëíå ïðèåìëåìî äëÿ ìíîãèõ
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #2  
Ñòàðûé 18.03.2012, 13:54
Dick Dick âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Çàñëóæåííûé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 08.12.2007
Ãîðîä: Ïåíçà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 741
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 127 ðàç(à) çà 122 ñîîáùåíèé
Dick ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDick ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDick ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDick ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDick ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDick ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDick ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Ïðàäàêñà (Äàáèãàòðàí) - ïðåïàðàò , èñïîëüçóåìûé äëÿ ïðîôèëàêòèêè òðîìáîýìîáëè÷åñêèõ îñëîæíåíèé, â ò.÷. öåðåáðàëüíûõ. Äåéñòâóåò íà ïîñëåäíèé ýòàï òðîìáîîáðàçîâàíèÿ - ñàì òðîìáèí. Òàêæå, êàê è íèçêîìîëåêóëÿðíûå ãåïàðèíû, íå òðåáóåò ëàá. êîíòðîëÿ. Èçâåñòíû ñìåðòåëüíûå ñëó÷àè íà ôîíå ïðèåìà Ïðàäàêñû â ôîðìå íåêóïèðóåìûõ ãåìîððàãèé, îäíàêî FDA ñ÷èòàåò, ÷òî ïîëüçà îò ïðèìåíåíèÿ ïðåïàðàòà ïðåâûøàåò ðèñê ãåìîððàãèè.
Ïîëàãàþ, ÷òî ñ ó÷åòîì ñòîèìîñòè, ìåñòî Ïðàäàêñû â íàñòîÿùåå âðåìÿ â ëå÷åíèè áîëüíûõ ñ âûñîêèì ðèñêîì ýìáîëèé è íåâîçìîæíîñòüþ îáåñïå÷èòü Âàðôàðèíîì ñòîéêèé óðîâåíü ÌÍÎ. Ñòîèìîñòü ïðåïàðàòà ýòî óæå äðóãîé âîïðîñ.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #3  
Ñòàðûé 18.03.2012, 14:49
Àâàòàð äëÿ audovichenko
audovichenko audovichenko âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âðà÷-ó÷àñòíèê ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 26.01.2006
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 7,477
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 1,531 ðàç(à) çà 1,497 ñîîáùåíèé
audovichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåaudovichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåaudovichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåaudovichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåaudovichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåaudovichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåaudovichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåaudovichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåaudovichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåaudovichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåaudovichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Òðîìáîëèçèñ ïðîòèâîïîêàçàí êàê íà âàðôàðèíå, òàê è íà äàáèãàòðàíå.

Êîììåíòàðèè ê ñîîáùåíèþ:
Dick îäîáðèë(à):
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #4  
Ñòàðûé 18.03.2012, 22:01
tambofff tambofff âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Ïîñòîÿííûé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 25.11.2010
Ãîðîä: Òàìáîâ
Ñîîáùåíèé: 228
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 19
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 15 ðàç(à) çà 13 ñîîáùåíèé
tambofff ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò õîðîøóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Âîò çäåñü åù¸:
[Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]

Ñëåäóåò çàìåòèòü:

1) íå âêëþ÷àëèñü ïàöèåíòû ñ êëàïàííûìè ïîðîêàìè ñåðäöà (óòî÷íÿåòñÿ - ò.å. ñ íàëè÷èåì ïðîòåçèðîâàííûõ êëàïàíîâ èëè ñ ãåìîäèíàìè÷åñêè çíà÷èìûì êëàïàííûì ïîðîêîì ñåðäöà) - à çíà÷èò, çäåñü íåëüçÿ ðåêîìåíäîâàòü äàáèãàòðàí

2) â 2 ðàçà âûøå ðèñê äèñïåïñèè ïðè ïðè¸ìå äàáèãàòðàíà, ÿâíî âûøå ÷àñòîòà ðàçâèòèÿ èíôàðêòà ìèîêàðäà (86/89 vs 63)

3) çà ïåðâè÷íóþ êîíå÷íóþ òî÷êó âçÿòî "èíñóëüò (ëþáîé) + ñèñòåìíàÿ ýìáîëèÿ"; ïðè ýòîì òàáëèöà ïî ÷àñòîòå ðàçâèòèÿ ðàçëè÷íûõ èíñóëüòîâ äàíà, à ïî ñèñòåìíûì ýìáîëèÿì - íåò, íî åñëè ïîñ÷èòàòü ñàìîìó ("stroke or systemic embolism" - "stroke"), òî âûõîäèò 182-171=11 / 134-122=12 / 199-185=14. Êîðî÷å, ïðåâîñõîäñòâà ïî ñèñòåìíîé ýìáîëèè íåò.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #5  
Ñòàðûé 18.03.2012, 22:39
Àâàòàð äëÿ Gilarov
Gilarov Gilarov âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âðà÷-ó÷àñòíèê ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 26.07.2001
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 7,196
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 713 ðàç(à) çà 691 ñîîáùåíèé
Gilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Âû, ñîáñòâåííî, ê ÷åìó ýòè âûêëàäêè ïðèâîäèòå? Íó íåò ó íåãî ïðåâîñõîäñòâà ïî ñèñòåìíîé ýìáîëèè è ÷òî ñ òîãî. Èõ è áûëî-òî, ýìáîëèé ýòèõ ìåíüøå äâóõ äåñÿòêîâ â êàæäîé ãðóïïå. À â ãðóïïå áûëî ïî 6000 ÷åë. Êîíòðîëü À×Ò è Ò íå íóæåí â ñèëó ñòàáèëüíîé è ïðåäñêàçóåìîé ôàðìàêîêèíåòèêè è ôàðìàêîäèíàìèêè ïðåïàðàòà. Êðîìå òîãî, êîíòðîëü ýòèõ ïîêàçàòåëåé íå îáåñïå÷èâàåò îïòèìàëüíûé ìîíèòîðèíã. À îáåñïå÷èâàåò åãî ïîìÿíóòûé Âàìè Hemoclot, êîòîðîãî â íàøåé ñòðàíå íåò. Åñëè èíòåðåñíî, ìîãó ïðåäîñòàâèòü öåëóþ áðîøþðó ïî âîïðîñàì ïðèìåíåíèÿ äàáèãàòðàíà.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #6  
Ñòàðûé 18.03.2012, 22:42
Dick Dick âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Çàñëóæåííûé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 08.12.2007
Ãîðîä: Ïåíçà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 741
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 127 ðàç(à) çà 122 ñîîáùåíèé
Dick ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDick ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDick ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDick ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDick ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDick ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDick ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Îáúåì ñòàòüè îãðàíè÷åí. Ñîâåòóþ îáðàòèòüñÿ ê äðóãèì, ïîñâÿùåííûì ðåçóëüòàòàì RE-LY, ãäå íà ìíîãèå âîïðîñû äàíû âïîëíå îïðåäåëåííûå îòâåòû. Ê òîìó æå íèãäå íå óòâåðæäàåòñÿ, ÷òî íîâûé ïðåïàðàò áåçîãîâîðî÷íî âûòåñíèë ñòàðûé.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #7  
Ñòàðûé 19.03.2012, 07:22
tambofff tambofff âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Ïîñòîÿííûé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 25.11.2010
Ãîðîä: Òàìáîâ
Ñîîáùåíèé: 228
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 19
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 15 ðàç(à) çà 13 ñîîáùåíèé
tambofff ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò õîðîøóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Áðîøþðó - èíòåðåñíî. Ñîáñòâåííî, ðå÷ü íå ñòîëüêî î ñèñòåìíîé ýìáîëèè, ñêîëüêî î êëàïàííûõ ïîðîêàõ è âîçðàñòàíèè ÷àñòîòû èíôàðêòà ìèîêàðäà - ìíå êàæåòñÿ ýòî âàæíûì.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #8  
Ñòàðûé 19.03.2012, 19:17
Àâàòàð äëÿ Gilarov
Gilarov Gilarov âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âðà÷-ó÷àñòíèê ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 26.07.2001
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 7,196
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 713 ðàç(à) çà 691 ñîîáùåíèé
Gilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Äåéñòâèòåëüíî, â RELY íå âêëþ÷àëè ïàöèåíòîâ ñ "êëàïàííîé" ÔÏ. Íî ðå÷ü èäåò, ïðåæäå âñåãî, î ñòåíîçàõ. Ñ ìèòðàëüíîé æå íåäîñòàòî÷íîñòüþ (îòíîñèòåëüíîé) ïàöèåíòîâ âêëþ÷àëè. Ïðîòåçû êëàïàíîâ íå âêëþ÷àëè, íî ñåé÷àñ èäåò èññëåäîâàíèå ñ äàáèãàòðàíîì, êîòîðîå ïîêàæåò, ñïîñîáåí ëè îí ïîìî÷ü òàêèì áîëüíûì. Ðàññóæäàÿ îá èíôàðêòå, íàâåðíîå ñòîèò âñå æå ãîâîðèòü î ìåíüøåì ñíèæåíèè ÷àñòîòû ÈÌ íà ôîíå äàáèãàòðàíà, à íå î âîçðàñòàíèè îíîé.  èññëåäîâàíèè ACTIVE-W â ãðóïïå, ïîëó÷àâøåé êëîïèäîãðåë+àñïèðèí (!!!) áûëî 36 ñëó÷àåâ ÈÌ (0,86% â ãîä), à â ãðóïïå, ïîëó÷àâøåé âàðôàðèí - 23 (0,55% â ãîä). ÎÐ 1·58 (0·94–2·67), ð=0,09. Ýòî íå ìåøàåò èñïîëüçîâàòü êëîïè+àñïèðèí ïðè ÈÌ. Äëÿ áðîøþðû ñîîáùèòå ñâîå ìûëî â ëè÷êó.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #9  
Ñòàðûé 19.03.2012, 21:43
tambofff tambofff âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Ïîñòîÿííûé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 25.11.2010
Ãîðîä: Òàìáîâ
Ñîîáùåíèé: 228
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 19
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 15 ðàç(à) çà 13 ñîîáùåíèé
tambofff ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò õîðîøóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ðàññóæäàÿ îá èíôàðêòå, íàâåðíîå ñòîèò âñå æå ãîâîðèòü î ìåíüøåì ñíèæåíèè ÷àñòîòû ÈÌ íà ôîíå äàáèãàòðàíà, à íå î âîçðàñòàíèè îíîé.
Áåçóñëîâíî, ðå÷ü îá ýòîì.

Íî, áûòü ìîæåò, ÿ ÷òî-òî íå äîãîíÿþ - ïî÷åìó æå ãðàôà ñ ãåìîððàãè÷åñêèì èíñóëüòîì âêëþ÷åíà â òàáëèöó ýôôåêòèâíîñòè ïðåïàðàòîâ (÷òî ñóùåñòâåííî ïîðòèò ñòàòèñòèêó âàðôàðèíà), òîãäà êàê ýòî íå åñòü ïîêàçàòåëü ýôôåêòèâíîñòè, íî ïîêàçàòåëü áåçîïàñíîñòè àíòèêîàãóëÿíòîâ.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #10  
Ñòàðûé 19.03.2012, 21:49
Àâàòàð äëÿ Gilarov
Gilarov Gilarov âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âðà÷-ó÷àñòíèê ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 26.07.2001
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 7,196
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 713 ðàç(à) çà 691 ñîîáùåíèé
Gilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Ãåìîððàãè÷åñêèå èíñóëüòû âêëþ÷åíû â ðàçäåë "èíñóëüòû". Ýòî áûëà âòîðè÷íàÿ êîíå÷íàÿ òî÷êà ýôôåêòèâíîñòè - âñå ñëó÷àè èíñóëüòîâ. Êðèòåðèè áåçîïàñíîñòè âêëþ÷àëè: Ãåìîððàãè÷åñêèå îñëîæíåíèÿ (áîëüøèå è ìàëûå), âíóòðè÷åðåïíûå êðîâîèçëèÿíèÿ, âíóòðèìîçãîâûå êðîâîèçëèÿíèÿ, ñóáäóðàëüíûå ãåìàòîìû, ñóáàðàõíîèäàëüíûå êðîâîèçëèÿíèÿ, ïîâûøåíèå óðîâíåé ïå÷åíî÷íûõ ôåðìåíòîâ èëè íàðóøåíèÿ ôóíêöèè ïå÷åíè
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #11  
Ñòàðûé 19.03.2012, 22:24
Àâàòàð äëÿ Dr.Vad
Dr.Vad Dr.Vad âíå ôîðóìà
Ìîäåðàòîð ôîðóìà ïî ãåìàòîëîãèè
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 16.01.2003
Ãîðîä: Õüþñòîí, Òåõàñ
Ñîîáùåíèé: 80,786
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 33,422 ðàç(à) çà 31,767 ñîîáùåíèé
Dr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Õîðîøî è íåïðåäâçÿòî î äàáèãàòðàíå â òåçèñàõ íåäàâíåé ïóáëèêàöèè:

Prescrire Int. 2012 Feb;21(124):33-6.
Dabigatran and atrial fibrillation: the alternative to warfarin for selected patients.


For patients with atrial fibrillation and a high risk of thrombosis, the standard prophylaxis is warfarin, an anticoagulant, at a dose adjusted to the INR. Warfarin and aspirin are both reasonable choices for patients with a moderate risk of thrombosis. Dabigatran, an oral anticoagulant that inhibits thrombin, has been authorised for patients with atrial fibrillation and a moderate or high risk of thrombosis, without associated valvular abnormalities. Clinical evaluation of dabigatran is based on a randomised "non-inferiority" trial comparing two doses of dabigatran (110 mg and 150 mg) taken twice daily, and adjusted-dose warfarin, in 18 113 patients treated for an average of 21 months. Overall mortality was about 4% per year and did not differ between the 3 groups. There was a greater reduction in the annual incidence of stroke or systemic embolism with the higher dose of dabigatran (1.1%) than with warfarin (1.7%). This is not the case for the lower dose (1.5%). In patients with good INR control, the difference in favour of the higher dose of dabigatran was no longer statistically significant. All-cause treatment discontinuation rates were higher with dabigatran than with warfarin (21% versus 17%, p<0.001). The incidence of serious bleeding did not differ statistically between warfarin and the higher dose of dabigatran (3.57% versus 3.32%), but was lower with the lower dose of dabigatran (2.87%). Compared with warfarin, dabigatran appears to be associated with about a 0.2% excess of myocardial infarction (0.73% versus 0.53%). Dyspepsia is also more frequent with dabigatran (6% versus 1.4%). Hepatic adverse effects appear to be mild but need to be monitored. The effects of dabigatran are potentiated by combination with P-glycoprotein inhibitors and drugs that impair renal function. Combination with other antithrombotic agents should also be avoided. Treatment with dabigatran does not require monitoring of haemostasis, whereas vitamin K inhibitors necessitate close INR monitoring. In contrast, renal function must be monitored, as renal impairment increases the risk of bleeding. Unlike vitamin K antagonists, there is no antidote for dabigatran overdose.

In practice, warfarin remains the standard drug for patients with atrial fibrillation and a moderate or high risk of thrombosis. Aspirin is an alternative for moderate-risk patients. When the risk is significant and the INR cannot be maintained within the target range despite close monitoring, dabigatran is the alternative to warfarin, provided the patient is closely monitored, especially for changes in renal function.
__________________
Èñêðåííå,
Âàäèì Âàëåðüåâè÷.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #12  
Ñòàðûé 19.03.2012, 22:42
Àâàòàð äëÿ Gilarov
Gilarov Gilarov âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âðà÷-ó÷àñòíèê ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 26.07.2001
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 7,196
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 713 ðàç(à) çà 691 ñîîáùåíèé
Gilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Ñîãëàøóñü ñî âñåì, êðîìå òîãî, ÷òî àñïèðèí - àëüòåðíàòèâà äëÿ ïàöèåíòîâ ñ óìåðåííûì ðèñêîì. Àñïèðèí, óâû, ïðàêòè÷åñêè áåñïîëåçåí â êà÷åñòâå ñðåäñòâà ïðîôèëàêòèêè òðîìáîýìáîëèé ïðè ÔÏ. Óæ åñëè ãîâîðèòü îá àëüòåðíàòèâàõ èç íûíå äîñòóïíûõ, òî ýòî êîìáèíàöèÿ àñïèðèíà è êëîïè. Íó, è êñàáàíû, êîíå÷íî (õîòÿ èõ ïîêà â ÐÔ â ïðîäàæå íåò).
Öèòàòà:
In patients with good INR control, the difference in favour of the higher dose of dabigatran was no longer statistically significant.
[Èçîáðàæåíèÿ äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì]
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #13  
Ñòàðûé 19.03.2012, 22:58
Àâàòàð äëÿ Dr.Vad
Dr.Vad Dr.Vad âíå ôîðóìà
Ìîäåðàòîð ôîðóìà ïî ãåìàòîëîãèè
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 16.01.2003
Ãîðîä: Õüþñòîí, Òåõàñ
Ñîîáùåíèé: 80,786
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 33,422 ðàç(à) çà 31,767 ñîîáùåíèé
Dr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Êîëëåãè èç Íîâîé Çåëàíäèè òàêæå íåäàâíî îïóáëèêîâàëè ñâîè äàííûå î äàáèãàòðàíîâûõ áîëüøèõ êðîâîòå÷åíèÿõ: êðîìå íèçêîãî êëèðåíñà, ñòàð÷åñêèé âîçðàñò è/èëè íèçêàÿ ìàññà òåëà òàêæå ìîãóò áûòü ôàêòîðàìè ðèñêà íà íåì: [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]

Íà ôîíå âîò òàêèõ íåäàâíèõ íåçàâèñèìûõ ïóáëèêàöèé â ïåðèîäèêå:

Clinical Challenges in a Patient With Dabigatran-Induced Fatal Hemorrhage.
Cano EL, Miyares MA.
Am J Geriatr Pharmacother. 2012 Mar 2.

Neurosurgical complications of direct thrombin inhibitors-catastrophic hemorrhage after mild traumatic brain injury in a patient receiving dabigatran.
Garber ST, Sivakumar W, Schmidt RH.
J Neurosurg. 2012 Mar 6.

 Áëàäå ïðîñêî÷èëà âåñüìà îïòèìèñòè÷íàÿ:

Blood. 2012 Mar 1;119(9):2172-4.
Recombinant factor VIIa (rFVIIa) and hemodialysis to manage massive dabigatran-associated postcardiac surgery bleeding.
Warkentin TE, Margetts P, Connolly SJ, Lamy A, Ricci C, Eikelboom JW.
McMaster University and Hamilton Health Sciences, Hamilton, ON.
(êîòîðàÿ ïî êàêîìó-òî ñòðàííîìó îáñòîÿòåëüñòâó íå îáîøëàñü áåç Eikelboom JW - äîêòîðó, èçâåñòíîìó "àäâîêàòó" äàáèãàòðàíà ïî âñåì íåäàâíèì êðèòè÷åñêèì çàìå÷àíèÿì, ïðîçâó÷àâøèì â ìåä. ïåðèîäèêå)

âîò òàêîé îáðàçåö ÷òî æå íóæíî äåëàòü ñ ïàöèåíòîì, ÷òîáû îí íå óìåð îò êðîâîòå÷åíèÿ - åñëè íåò ïîä ðóêîé ÍîâîÑåâåíà+ýêñòðåííîãî äèàëèçà, òî èëè äàáèãàòðàí íå íàçíà÷àòü èëè ìîæåò çàêîí÷èòüñÿ êàê â ïåðâûõ äâóõ ïóáëèêàöèÿõ...

õî÷åòñÿ ïîâòîðèòü äåëüíîå çàìå÷àíèå îò îäíîãî äîêòîðà, ïðîçâó÷àâøåå â Stroke: â ðàñïîðÿæåíèè êîìïàíèè ïîñëå òðàéëîâ èìåþòñÿ äåñÿòêè ñëó÷àåâ áîëüøèõ êðîâîòå÷åíèé íà äàííîì ïðåïàðàòå, åñëè âñå òàê ðàäóæíî, òî îãëàñèòå âåñü ñïèñîê ïîñòðàäàâøèõ è êîìïëåêñ ïðèìåíÿâøèõñÿ ìåð, ÷òîáû ïðîàíàëèçèðîâàòü êàêîé èìåííî ïîäõîä íóæíî ïðèìåíèòü è ÷òî êàê ìèíèìóì èìåòü â àðñåíàëå, ÷òîáû ïàöèåíò íå îòïðàâèëñÿ íà òîò ñâåò... à åñëè áîëüøèíñòâî áîëüøèõ êðîâîòå÷åíèé, îïèñàííûå êàê êîíå÷íàÿ òî÷êà â òðàéëå íà äàáèãàòðàíå, ÷åðåç 8-24 ÷ ïðåâðàòèëèñü â ôàòàëüíûå, òî ïðåäóïðåäèòå äîêòîðîâ î òàêîé ïóñòÿêîâîé íåïðèÿòíîñòè, à òî "èõ òàê ðóãàþò çà ñìåðòåëüíûå èñõîäû"...

Êîììåíòàðèè ê ñîîáùåíèþ:
Gilarov îäîáðèë(à):
__________________
Èñêðåííå,
Âàäèì Âàëåðüåâè÷.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #14  
Ñòàðûé 19.03.2012, 23:14
Àâàòàð äëÿ Dr.Vad
Dr.Vad Dr.Vad âíå ôîðóìà
Ìîäåðàòîð ôîðóìà ïî ãåìàòîëîãèè
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 16.01.2003
Ãîðîä: Õüþñòîí, Òåõàñ
Ñîîáùåíèé: 80,786
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 33,422 ðàç(à) çà 31,767 ñîîáùåíèé
Dr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
ïðèÿòíî óäèâèëà Óêðàèíà íà äèàãðàììå...

êñòàòè, î ìóëüòèöåíòðîâîñòè RELY - ãäå-òî ÷èòàë êîììåíò ê ýòîìó èññëåäîâàíèþ, ãäå ïðèâîäèëàñü ñòàòèñòèêà-ñðàâíåíèå, ÷òî ÌÍÎ êîíòðîëü ëó÷øå, ÷åì ìåíüøå öåíòðîâ ïðèíèìàåò ó÷àñòèå â òðàéëå (îòñþäà ìîæíî ïðåäïîëîæèòü, ÷òî åñëè Óêðàèíà áûëà ïðåäñòàâëåíà îäíèì öåíòðîì â Êèåâå, à â Ðîññèè - ýòî áûëè 3-5 öåíòðîâ â Ìîñêâå, Ïèòåðå è åùå ãäå-ëèáî, òî ïîíÿòíî ïî÷åìó íà Óêðàèíå ïîêàçàòåëè ïîëó÷øå)... òî åñòü â ðåàëüíîì îäíîì öåíòðå, ãäå ïðîâîäèòñÿ öåíòðàëèçîâàííàÿ àíòèêîàãóëÿöèÿ, âàðôàðèí ìîæåò áûòü áîëåå-ýôôåêòèâåí/áåçîïàñåí, ÷åì ïðàäàêñà:

A recent Medco Health Solutions report found that the actual stroke and bleeding rates found at 4 months for dabigatran were equivalent
to or higher than the stroke and bleeding rates per year for warfarin from the RE-LY trial. (îòðûâîê èç íåäàâíåãî êîììåíòàðèÿ îò ðåäàêòîðà Àííàëîâ Ìåäèöèíû Èíòåðíû)
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Èñêðåííå,
Âàäèì Âàëåðüåâè÷.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #15  
Ñòàðûé 19.03.2012, 23:28
Àâàòàð äëÿ Dr.Vad
Dr.Vad Dr.Vad âíå ôîðóìà
Ìîäåðàòîð ôîðóìà ïî ãåìàòîëîãèè
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 16.01.2003
Ãîðîä: Õüþñòîí, Òåõàñ
Ñîîáùåíèé: 80,786
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 33,422 ðàç(à) çà 31,767 ñîîáùåíèé
Dr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåDr.Vad ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Dabigatran as anticoagulant therapy for atrial fibrillation:
Which patients should receive it, which patients may not need it,
and other practical aspects of patient management

[Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]
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Èñêðåííå,
Âàäèì Âàëåðüåâè÷.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
Îòâåò



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