Äèñêóññèîííûé Êëóá Ðóññêîãî Ìåäèöèíñêîãî Ñåðâåðà
MedNavigator.ru - Ïîèñê è ïîäáîð ëå÷åíèÿ â Ðîññèè è çà ðóáåæîì

Âåðíóòüñÿ   Äèñêóññèîííûé Êëóá Ðóññêîãî Ìåäèöèíñêîãî Ñåðâåðà > Ôîðóìû âðà÷åáíûõ êîíñóëüòàöèé > Ýíäîêðèíîëîãèÿ

Ýíäîêðèíîëîãèÿ Ôîðóìû: Âîïðîñû è îòâåòû ïî çàáîëåâàíèÿì ùèòîâèäíîé æåëåçû, Äèàáåò, Îæèðåíèå, Ôîðóì äëÿ âðà÷åé ýíäîêðèíîëîãîâ

Îòâåò
 
Îïöèè òåìû Ïîèñê â ýòîé òåìå Îïöèè ïðîñìîòðà
  #1  
Ñòàðûé 23.09.2014, 22:52
Atriy Atriy âíå ôîðóìà Ïîë ìóæñêîé
Ñåðôåð
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 17.04.2014
Ãîðîä: Íèæíèé Íîâãîðîä
Ñîîáùåíèé: 6
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 1
Atriy ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïëîõóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Question T3 è T4 â ñóòî÷íîé ìî÷å. Ãäå ñäàòü àíàëèç?

Äîáðûé äåíü, ãäå â ýòîé ñòðàíå ìîæíî ñäàòü àíàëèç ñóòî÷íîé ìî÷è íà ãîðìîíû ùåòîâèäíîé æåëåçû?  Åâðîïó íå õî÷åòñÿ åõàòü.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #2  
Ñòàðûé 24.09.2014, 01:24
ghrh44 ghrh44 âíå ôîðóìà
ÂÐÀ×
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 21.07.2014
Ãîðîä: N-sk
Ñîîáùåíèé: 3,942
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 2,027 ðàç(à) çà 1,871 ñîîáùåíèé
ghrh44 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåghrh44 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåghrh44 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåghrh44 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåghrh44 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåghrh44 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåghrh44 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåghrh44 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåghrh44 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåghrh44 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåghrh44 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
À êòî âàì òàêîå íàçíà÷èë?
Áåññìûñëèöà êàêàÿ-òî..........
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #3  
Ñòàðûé 24.09.2014, 08:05
ELENA_VLAD ELENA_VLAD âíå ôîðóìà
ÂÐÀ×
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 24.07.2008
Ãîðîä: Êðàñíîÿðñê
Ñîîáùåíèé: 6,962
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 278
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 2,133 ðàç(à) çà 2,058 ñîîáùåíèé
ELENA_VLAD ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåELENA_VLAD ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåELENA_VLAD ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåELENA_VLAD ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåELENA_VLAD ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåELENA_VLAD ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåELENA_VLAD ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåELENA_VLAD ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåELENA_VLAD ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåELENA_VLAD ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåELENA_VLAD ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Ñïðîñèòå îá ýòîì òîãî ñïåöèàëèñòà, êîòîðûé íàçíà÷èë.
Ëþáîïûòíî ïîñìîòðåòü è ïðåäâàðèòåëüíûé äèàãíîç.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #4  
Ñòàðûé 24.09.2014, 08:26
Samitin Samitin âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âðà÷-ó÷àñòíèê ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 27.08.2009
Ãîðîä: Ñàðàòîâ
Ñîîáùåíèé: 2,224
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 8
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 765 ðàç(à) çà 691 ñîîáùåíèé
Samitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåSamitin ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Äàæå âíå íàøåé ñòðàíû ñìûñëà â ïîäîáíîì èññëåäîâàíèè íåò.

Wiersinga WM1, Fliers E. - Determining the thyroid hormones T3 and T4 in the urine: an unreliable test for hypothyroidism - [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]

Öèòàòà:
A 24-year-old woman complained of tiredness, sensitivity to cold, and feelings of depression. A diagnosis of hypothyroidism based on decreased 24 h urinary T3 and T4 excretion was made, and she was treated with levothyroxin. No blood tests were done. She was referred with the question if she had other endocrine disorders. Her periods were regular, and on physical examination no abnormalities except slight acne were found. Similarly, hypothyroidism was diagnosed by decreased thyroid hormone excretion in 24 h urine, again without blood tests, in a 68-year-old woman whose mother had a goitre, and who had already been prescribed liothyronine. She had no complaints, and physical examination was unremarkable. The thyroid gland was not palpable. Thyroid peroxidase antibodies were absent in both patients. After discontinuation of medication with thyroid hormones they both remained euthyroid. It is concluded that thyroid disease did not exist in those 2 patients. Measurement of 24 h urinary T3 and T4 excretion is not an accurate diagnostic test for hypothyroidism.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #5  
Ñòàðûé 24.09.2014, 10:20
Atriy Atriy âíå ôîðóìà Ïîë ìóæñêîé
Ñåðôåð
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 17.04.2014
Ãîðîä: Íèæíèé Íîâãîðîä
Ñîîáùåíèé: 6
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 1
Atriy ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïëîõóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò Samitin Ïîñìîòðåòü ñîîáùåíèå
Äàæå âíå íàøåé ñòðàíû ñìûñëà â ïîäîáíîì èññëåäîâàíèè íåò.

Wiersinga WM1, Fliers E. - Determining the thyroid hormones T3 and T4 in the urine: an unreliable test for hypothyroidism - [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]
Íàâåðíîå èìåííî ïîýòîìó åâðîïåéñêèå è àìåðèêàíñêèå ëàáîðàòîðèè åãî äåëàþò:

[Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]
[Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]
[Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]


Ïî÷èòàòü ïî÷åìó îíè ýòî äåëàþò ìîæíî â ýòîì îáçîðå: [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]

Öèòàòà:
Ñåãîäíÿ 09:05
ELENA_VLAD Ñïðîñèòå îá ýòîì òîãî ñïåöèàëèñòà, êîòîðûé íàçíà÷èë.
Ëþáîïûòíî ïîñìîòðåòü è ïðåäâàðèòåëüíûé äèàãíîç.

Ñåãîäíÿ 02:24
ghrh44 À êòî âàì òàêîå íàçíà÷èë?
Áåññìûñëèöà êàêàÿ-òî..........
Ñóäÿ ïî ðåàêöèè â ýòîé ñòðàíå òàêîé àíàëèç íà÷íóò íàçíà÷àòü ëåò ÷åðåç 10 è ýòî åùå îïòèìèñòè÷íûé ïðîãíîç.

Êîììåíòàðèè ê ñîîáùåíèþ:
Samitin íå îäîáðèë(à): Âàì îáúÿñíèëè, ïî÷åìó ÍÅ èìååò ñìûñëà ýòî äåëàòü, îäíàêî ñäàâàòü ëþáûå àíàëèçû Âû âîëüíû ïî ñâîåìó óñìîòðåíèþ
Melnichenko íå îäîáðèë(à): Âíà÷àëå íàäî íàó÷èòüñÿ ÷èòàòü
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #6  
Ñòàðûé 24.09.2014, 10:31
Atriy Atriy âíå ôîðóìà Ïîë ìóæñêîé
Ñåðôåð
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 17.04.2014
Ãîðîä: Íèæíèé Íîâãîðîä
Ñîîáùåíèé: 6
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 1
Atriy ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïëîõóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Samitin íå îäîáðèë(à): Âàì îáúÿñíèëè, ïî÷åìó ÍÅ èìååò ñìûñëà ýòî äåëàòü...
Ãäå îáúñíåíèå??? Åñòü ññûëêà íà âûäåðæêó èç ñòàòüè, ãäå âûâîä äåëàåòñÿ íà îñíîâàíèè îäíîãî ñëó÷àÿ. ß æå ïðèâåë ññûëêó íà îáçîð 2012 ãîäà ãäå ìèíèìóì äåñÿòîê ñòàòåé.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #7  
Ñòàðûé 24.09.2014, 10:37
Àâàòàð äëÿ Melnichenko
Melnichenko Melnichenko âíå ôîðóìà
ÂÐÀ×
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 26.07.2001
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 117,280
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 26
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 33,625 ðàç(à) çà 32,699 ñîîáùåíèé
Melnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Âàì îòâåòèëè âðà÷è Ðîññèè( â òîì ÷èñëå ÷ëåíû Åâðîïåéñêîé Àññîöèàöèè òèðîèäîëîãîâ) è îäèí èç êðóïíåéøèõ ñïåöèàëèñòîâ ÑØÀ ïî îïóõîëÿì ãèïîôèçà ...
Òàê ÷òî íå òîëüêî â ýòîé, íî è â òîé è â òåõ ñòðàíàõ íå èñïîëüçóþò äàííûå îá ýêñêðåöèè ò4 è ò3 ñ ìî÷îé. Íî åñëè ñèå î÷åíü íàäî , êîììåð÷åñêèå ëàáîðàòîðèè çà óìåðåííîå âîçíàãðàæäåíèå ñäåëàþò ýòî èññëåäîâàíèå â ëþáûõ áèîæèäêîñòÿõ è ó íàñ, è ó íèõ, è ó òåõ, è ó ýòèõ ( òå-òå -òå è òå-òå òå ( ñ ) .
Áîãàòåíüêèõ Áóðàòèíîê íà áàáêè ðàçâîäèòü íå ãðåõ. Óìíåíüêèé æå Áóðàòèíêà çàäóìàåòñÿ- êàê ñîçäàâàëèñü ðåôåðåíñû è íà õðåíà åìó ýòî íàäî. Âû õîòü ïîäïèñè ïîä äàííûìè îòâå÷àþùèõ ÷èòàéòå.

Íà ñàìîì äåëå äàííûå îá ýêñêðåöèè êàê ðàç ñâÿçàííûõ ôîðì Ò4 ìîãóò ïðèãîäèòüñÿ ïðè îöåíêå ðåäêîé ñèòóàöèè - ìàññèâíîé ïîòåðå ñâÿçàííîãî Ò4 ïðè îñòðîì íåôðîòè÷åñêîì ñèíäðîìå êàê ïðè÷èíå ãèïîòèðîçà ( âèäåëà â þíîñòè, à ïîòîì ìíå ìíîãî ëåò íèêòî íå âåðèë, è ñåé÷àñ â Endocrine Review ïðî÷ëà )
Âû äóìàåòå, ÷òî ñåðüåçíûå âðà÷è ÷èòàþò ðåêëàìó êîììåð÷åñêèõ óñëóã?
Âû ìîæåòå õîòü çàâòðà çàïëàòèòü â ëþáîé ëàáîðàòîðèè, ãäå èñïîëüçóþò ÈÔÀ èëè LÑ- ÌS / ÌS è Âàì èññëåäóþò â âîçëþáëåííîé áèîæèäêîñòè Ò4 èÒ3 - à äàëüøå òî ÷òî?
Ðåôåðåíñû îò êîòà Áàçèëèî ?
Êîãäà â 1979 ãîäó Ðîçàëèí ßëîó ïîëó÷àëà Íîáåëåâñêóþ ïðåìèþ çà èçîáðåòåíèå ìåòîäèêè ( òàêîãî íå áûëî íèêîãäà - çà ìåòîäèêè Íîáåëåâêó íå äàþò ) ÐÈÀ, òî Íîáåëåâñêèé êîìèòåò ( óìåþò æå ëþäè ôîðìóëèðâîàòü ! ) èçðåê - "Ïðåìèÿ âðó÷àåòñÿ çà èçîáðåòåíèå ìåòîäà , ïîçâîëÿþùåãî îïðåäåëèòü ËÞÁÎÅ âåùåñòâî â ËÞÁÎÉ áèîëîãè÷åñêîé æèäêîñòè , áóäå îíî çàñëóæèâàåò áûòü îïðåäåëåííûì".
È èäåÿ îöåíèâàòü Ò4\Ò3 â ìî÷å òîãäà æå è áûëà çàêðûòà :
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1976 Mar;42(3):494-503.

Triiodothyronine and thyroxine in urine. I. Measurement and application.

Shakespear RA, Burke CW.

Abstract

Urinary triiodothyronine (T3) and thyroxine (T4) were measured by RIA, and T4 was also measured by competitive protein binding (CPB). pH 1-hydrolysable conjugates were 48% of total urinary T3, and enzyme- or pH 1-hydrolysable conjugates were 55% and 61% of total urinary T4. The mean unconjugated T3 excretion was 34.3 ng/h (0.99 mug T3/g creatinine) in normal subjects (no day-night rhythm found), 1.56 mug/g in late pregnancy, 0.82 mug/g in neonates (1-12 days), and was also unchanged in persons with high or low thyroxine-binding globulin (TBG). In thyrotoxicosis, mean T3 excretion was 281 ng/h, no values being in the normal range. In primary hypothyroidism it was 18.3 ng/h, but over half the values were in the normal range. The mean urinary unconjugated T4 was 82.2 ng/h (1.37 mug T4/g creatinine) in normal subjects, 1.6 mug/g in neonates, and unchanged in persons with high or low TBG, except that in pregnancy high values were compatible with increases protein excretion. Apparently increased day-time T4 excretion compared with night-time excretion may also be due to changes in protein excretion rate. The mean T4 in thyrotoxicosis was 337 ng/h (12% of values in the normal range) and 32.8 ng/h in primary hypothyroidism (over half the normal range). All the assays, especially that of T4 by CPB gave readings which were incorrect with protein concentrations above 100 mg/l. Urinary T3 and T4 assays for clinical purposes have few practical advantages over serum assays, despite the relationship of urine T3 and T4 to serum unbound levels.
À òî , íà ÷òî âû âåäåòåñü - íå îáçîð ëèò-ðû , à êîììåð÷åñêàÿ ðåêëàìà. Êñòàòè , Âèëüìàð Âåðñèíãà , ïðèâåäøèé î÷åðåäíîé ñëó÷àé èäèîòèçìà , êàêîâîé Âàñ çàñòàâèë ñìîðùèòü íîñ è ïîêðûòü ïîçîðîì ÝÒÓ ñòðàíó - Ýêñ Ïðåçèäåíò ÅÒÀ

Êîììåíòàðèè ê ñîîáùåíèþ:
Samitin îäîáðèë(à):
FilippovaYulia îäîáðèë(à):
__________________
Ã.À. Ìåëüíè÷åíêî
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #8  
Ñòàðûé 24.09.2014, 16:04
ghrh44 ghrh44 âíå ôîðóìà
ÂÐÀ×
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 21.07.2014
Ãîðîä: N-sk
Ñîîáùåíèé: 3,942
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 2,027 ðàç(à) çà 1,871 ñîîáùåíèé
ghrh44 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåghrh44 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåghrh44 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåghrh44 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåghrh44 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåghrh44 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåghrh44 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåghrh44 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåghrh44 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåghrh44 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåghrh44 ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
 ïîñëåäíåå âðåìÿ ðàçâåëîñü êðàéíå ìíîãî áåçãðàìîòíûõ ìîøåííèêîâ ðåêîìåíäóþøèõ íàòóðàëüíûå âåøåñòâà è ñòðàííûå àíàëèçû äëÿ äèàãíîçà è ëå÷åíèÿ ÷åãî óãîäíî. Øèòîâèäêà îäèí èç ëþáèìåéøèõ ïðèìåðîâ. Íàäî æå êàê-òî ïðîäàâàòü ñåëåíèóì, íàòóðàëüíûé éîä ( à êàêîé íåíàòóðàëüíûé?), èçîáðåòàòü àíàëèçû, êîòîðûå íè îäíà èç ïðîôåññèîíàëüíûõ ëàáîðàòîðèé íå äåëàåò ( êîíêóðåíöèè íåò), è ñîñàòü íàëè÷íûå, áëàãî ôèãíÿ åòà ñòðàõîâêîé íå ïîêðûâàåòñÿ.
Ó íàñ òóò íåäàëåêî åñòü ïàðíèøêà- õèðîïðàêòîð (!!!), êîòîðûé ïî ðàäèî äà¸ò ðåêëàìû î ãèïîòèðåîçå, ïîðàæàþøåì ÷óòü ëè íå ïîëîâèíó íàñåëåíèÿ, è íå äèàãíîñöèóåìîì òðàäèöèîííûìè ìåòîäàìè ( ïðîêëÿòûå åíäîêðèíîëîãè!). À îí èñïîëüçóåò ìåòîäû, îïðåäåëÿþøèå íå÷óâñòâèòåëüíîñòü òåëà ê òèðîêñèíó, âêëþ÷àÿ ðåâåðñ Ò3 :-), è óñòðàíÿåò "ïðè÷èíó", ÷òî ïðèâîäèò ñ ïîëíîìó âûçäîðîâëåíèþ, ñåìåéíîìó ñ÷àñòüþ è äîëãîæèòåëüñòâó äî ïðèõîäà êîììóíèçìà. È çà óìåðåííóþ öåíó âñåãî â íåñêîëüêî òûñÿ÷ äîëëàðîâ. Íî çäîðîâüå âàæíåå. Ò4 è Ò3 â ìî÷å èç òîé æå îïåðû.
Õîòèòå äåëàòü - äåëàéòå, ïèñàéòå â áàíêó íà çäîðîâüå. Ïëàòèòü íàäî íàëè÷íûìè èëè êðåäèòíóþ êàðòî÷êó áåðóò?
À ìî÷ó íà àíàëèç êàëà îíè äåëàþò?

Êîììåíòàðèè ê ñîîáùåíèþ:
ELENA_VLAD îäîáðèë(à):
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
Îòâåò



Âàøè ïðàâà â ðàçäåëå
Âû íå ìîæåòå ñîçäàâàòü òåìû
Âû íå ìîæåòå îòâå÷àòü íà ñîîáùåíèÿ
Âû íå ìîæåòå ïðèêðåïëÿòü ôàéëû
Âû íå ìîæåòå ðåäàêòèðîâàòü ñîîáùåíèÿ

BB êîäû Âêë.
Ñìàéëû Âêë.
[IMG] êîä Âêë.
HTML êîä Âûêë.



×àñîâîé ïîÿñ GMT +3, âðåìÿ: 23:51.




Ðàáîòàåò íà vBulletin® âåðñèÿ 3.
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.