Äèñêóññèîííûé Êëóá Ðóññêîãî Ìåäèöèíñêîãî Ñåðâåðà
MedNavigator.ru - Ïîèñê è ïîäáîð ëå÷åíèÿ â Ðîññèè è çà ðóáåæîì
  #376  
Ñòàðûé 02.04.2010, 19:56
Àâàòàð äëÿ Chevychelov
Chevychelov Chevychelov âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âåòåðàí ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 09.09.2006
Ãîðîä: Òèðàñïîëü
Ñîîáùåíèé: 2,244
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 73
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 163 ðàç(à) çà 140 ñîîáùåíèé
Çàïèñåé â äíåâíèêå: 54
Chevychelov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåChevychelov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåChevychelov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåChevychelov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåChevychelov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåChevychelov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåChevychelov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåChevychelov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåChevychelov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåChevychelov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåChevychelov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Ìóæ÷èíà. 25 ëåò. Òåìïåðàòóðà 37.5. Ñèëüíûå ðàçäèðàþùèå áîëè çà ãðóäèíîé.I,II,III,V1,V2,V3,V4,V5
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #377  
Ñòàðûé 02.04.2010, 20:06
Àâàòàð äëÿ Chevychelov
Chevychelov Chevychelov âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âåòåðàí ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 09.09.2006
Ãîðîä: Òèðàñïîëü
Ñîîáùåíèé: 2,244
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 73
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 163 ðàç(à) çà 140 ñîîáùåíèé
Çàïèñåé â äíåâíèêå: 54
Chevychelov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåChevychelov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåChevychelov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåChevychelov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåChevychelov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåChevychelov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåChevychelov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåChevychelov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåChevychelov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåChevychelov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåChevychelov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
aVR, aVL, aVF
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #378  
Ñòàðûé 02.04.2010, 20:41
Àâàòàð äëÿ tourunov
tourunov tourunov âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Çàñëóæåííûé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 14.01.2010
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 915
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 170 ðàç(à) çà 170 ñîîáùåíèé
tourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåtourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåtourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåtourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåtourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåtourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåtourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåtourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåtourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåtourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Îñòðûé ïåðèêàðäèò. Ýëåâàöèÿ ST â 1,2, V2, V3, V4, V5, V6 (ïî-ìîåìó, îäíî ãðóäíîå ïîòåðÿíî). Äåïðåññèÿ ST â avR. Äåïðåññèÿ PQ â 2, avF+ìîëîäîé+òåìïåðàòóðà.

Êîììåíòàðèè ê ñîîáùåíèþ:
Gilarov îäîáðèë(à):
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #379  
Ñòàðûé 02.04.2010, 20:48
Àâàòàð äëÿ Chevychelov
Chevychelov Chevychelov âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âåòåðàí ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 09.09.2006
Ãîðîä: Òèðàñïîëü
Ñîîáùåíèé: 2,244
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 73
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 163 ðàç(à) çà 140 ñîîáùåíèé
Çàïèñåé â äíåâíèêå: 54
Chevychelov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåChevychelov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåChevychelov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåChevychelov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåChevychelov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåChevychelov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåChevychelov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåChevychelov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåChevychelov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåChevychelov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåChevychelov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Çàáîëåë 2 íåäåëè íàçàä. Âíà÷àëå îñòðûé òîíçèëëèò. Ïîëó÷àë àíòèáèîòèê - 5 äíåé. Çàòåì îçíîáû, áîëü â ñóñòàâàõ. Â÷åðà ðåçêèå áîëè â ãðóäíîé êëåòêå. Íà Ýõîêã ñåãîäíÿ òîëüêî íåáîëüøîå êîëè÷åñòâî æèäêîñòè â ïåðèêàðäå. Êòî ìíå îáúÿñíèò: ïî÷åìó àíòèáèîòèê 5 äíåé, ÷òî ýòî çà âîëøåáíàÿ öèôðà, ÷òî ïåðåñòóïèòü ÷åðåç íåå íó íèêàê íåëüçÿ?
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #380  
Ñòàðûé 05.04.2010, 15:33
KMN KMN âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Çàñëóæåííûé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 16.02.2007
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 588
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 27 ðàç(à) çà 26 ñîîáùåíèé
KMN ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåKMN ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåKMN ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåKMN ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåKMN ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåKMN ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåKMN ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåKMN ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåKMN ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåKMN ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Ìóæ÷èíà 53 ã áåç êàðäèîëîãè÷åñêîãî àíàìíåçà. Âíåçàïíî ïî÷óâñòâîâàë ñåðäöåáèåíèå, âûçâàë ÑÌÏ.  òå÷åíèè 2 ÷àñîâ ó áîëüíîãî ðåãèñòðèðîâàëàñü ÝÊÃ, ñî ñëîâ âðà÷à ñêîðîé, àíàëîãè÷íàÿ äàííîé:
[Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]

Áîëüíîé ñóáúåêòèâíî ïåðåíîñèë íàðóøåíèå ðèòìà îòíîñèòåëüíî óäîâëåòâîðèòåëüíî. Ñî ñëîâ âðà÷à ñêîðîé - ÀÄ 100/60 ìì ðò ñò.
 ñâÿçè ñ ýòèì êàðäèîâåðñèÿ íå ïðîâîäèëàñü.

Äàëåå áîëüíîìó áûëî íàçíà÷åíî 40 ìã. îáçèäàíà, ÷åðåç 20 ìèí. îí ïîòåðÿë ñîçíàíèå:
[Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]

Âîññòàíîâëåí ñèíóñîâûé ðèòì ÝÈÒ:
[Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]

Âîïðîñ: êàêîå íàðóøåíèå ðèòìà ïðåäøåñòâîâàëî ÔÆ?
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #381  
Ñòàðûé 05.04.2010, 16:16
Àâàòàð äëÿ tourunov
tourunov tourunov âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Çàñëóæåííûé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 14.01.2010
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 915
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 170 ðàç(à) çà 170 ñîîáùåíèé
tourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåtourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåtourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåtourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåtourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåtourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåtourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåtourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåtourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåtourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
ÔÏ.WPW->ÔÆ->ÝÈÒ->Ñð.WPW
×òî íàçûâàåòñÿ: "Óæ ñêîëüêî ðàç òâåðäèëè ìèðó..." (ýòî ÿ ïðî íàçíà÷åíèå á-áëîêåðîâ ïðè ÔÏ ñ ñèíäðîìîì WPW)
Íà äîãîñïèòàëüíîì ýòàïå äåëî ïðîèñõîäèëî?

Êîììåíòàðèè ê ñîîáùåíèþ:
KMN îäîáðèë(à):
Rodionov îäîáðèë(à):
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #382  
Ñòàðûé 05.04.2010, 16:40
KMN KMN âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Çàñëóæåííûé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 16.02.2007
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 588
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 27 ðàç(à) çà 26 ñîîáùåíèé
KMN ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåKMN ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåKMN ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåKMN ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåKMN ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåKMN ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåKMN ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåKMN ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåKMN ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåKMN ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò tourunov Ïîñìîòðåòü ñîîáùåíèå
Íà äîãîñïèòàëüíîì ýòàïå äåëî ïðîèñõîäèëî?
Äîãîñïèòàëüíî. À íå ìîæåò ëè ýòî áûòü ÆÒ èëè øèðîêàÿ àíòèäðîìíàÿ ÑÂÒ?

Êîììåíòàðèè ê ñîîáùåíèþ:
Gilarov îäîáðèë(à): Íåðàâíîìåðíîñòü RR ãîâîðèò î ìåðöàëêå, à íå î ÆÒ.
dmblok îäîáðèë(à): Â ïðèíöèïå âïîëíå áûâàåò "íåðàâíîìåðíàÿ" ÆÒ
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #383  
Ñòàðûé 05.04.2010, 16:54
Àâàòàð äëÿ tourunov
tourunov tourunov âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Çàñëóæåííûé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 14.01.2010
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 915
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 170 ðàç(à) çà 170 ñîîáùåíèé
tourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåtourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåtourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåtourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåtourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåtourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåtourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåtourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåtourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåtourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò KMN Ïîñìîòðåòü ñîîáùåíèå
Äîãîñïèòàëüíî. À íå ìîæåò ëè ýòî áûòü ÆÒ èëè øèðîêàÿ àíòèäðîìíàÿ ÑÂÒ?
Äëÿ ïîëèìîðôíîé ÆÒ õàðàêòåðíî áîëåå âûðàæåííîå èçìåíåíèå ôîðìû êîìïëåêñîâ è èõ àìïëèòóäû, äëÿ TdP - åùå è îñü ìåíÿåòñÿ, íó è + áåç êàðäèîëîãè÷åñêîãî àíàìíåçà, êëèíèêà, ÿ òàê ïîíÿë, òîëüêî ñåðäöåáèåíèå, ãåìîäèíàìè÷åñêîé íåñòàáèëüíîñòè íåò. Îðòîäðîìíûå òàõèêàðäèè ðåãóëÿðíûå, åùå îäèí âàðèàíò - ÔÏ ñ àááåðàöèåé, íî îí òîæå ìàëîâåðîÿòåí: 1) âûñîêàÿ ÷àñòîòà êîìïëåêñîâ - ÀÂ-óçåë âðÿä ëè ñìîæåò òàê ïðîâîäèòü, à âîò ÄÏÏ - ñïîêîéíî 2) íà ñèíóñîâîì ðèòìå ïðåäâîçáóæäåíèå ïðèñóòñòâóåò - ñ ÷åãî áû åìó çà íåñêîëüêî ñåêóíä äî ýòîãî (äî ÝÈÒ) îòñóòñòâîâàòü? Ìîæåò, êîíå÷íî, è WPW áûòü ïðåõîäÿùèì, íî ýòî ìåíåå âåðîÿòíî.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #384  
Ñòàðûé 05.04.2010, 18:17
Àâàòàð äëÿ Gilarov
Gilarov Gilarov âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âðà÷-ó÷àñòíèê ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 26.07.2001
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 7,196
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 713 ðàç(à) çà 691 ñîîáùåíèé
Gilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Êñòàòè, èíòåðåñíî, íàñêîëüêî âèíîâàò îáçèäàí â òîì, ÷òî ó áîëüíîãî íà÷àëàñü ÔÆ? Ìíå êàæåòñÿ, ÷òî íå î÷åíü.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #385  
Ñòàðûé 05.04.2010, 18:38
ozinvev ozinvev âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âðà÷-ó÷àñòíèê ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 22.01.2007
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 1,378
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 198 ðàç(à) çà 196 ñîîáùåíèé
ozinvev ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåozinvev ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåozinvev ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåozinvev ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåozinvev ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåozinvev ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåozinvev ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåozinvev ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåozinvev ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåozinvev ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåozinvev ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Äà, â ëèòåðàòóðå îáâèíÿþò âåðàïàìèë è ãëèêîçèäû. Õîòÿ, ãäå-òî, â ñîâåòñêîé åù¸ ëèòåðàòóðå âñòðå÷àë ïðî íåíóæíîñòü â-áëîêàòîðà ïðè WPW.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #386  
Ñòàðûé 05.04.2010, 19:19
Àâàòàð äëÿ tourunov
tourunov tourunov âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Çàñëóæåííûé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 14.01.2010
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 915
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 170 ðàç(à) çà 170 ñîîáùåíèé
tourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåtourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåtourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåtourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåtourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåtourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåtourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåtourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåtourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåtourunov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò Gilarov Ïîñìîòðåòü ñîîáùåíèå
Êñòàòè, èíòåðåñíî, íàñêîëüêî âèíîâàò îáçèäàí â òîì, ÷òî ó áîëüíîãî íà÷àëàñü ÔÆ? Ìíå êàæåòñÿ, ÷òî íå î÷åíü.
Äà, ñîãëàñåí ñ Âàìè, ñêîðåå âñåãî - íå î÷åíü è âèíîâàò, âñå-òàêè âñåãî 20 ìã. Íî ñàì ôàêò !?
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #387  
Ñòàðûé 05.04.2010, 19:27
Àâàòàð äëÿ Gilarov
Gilarov Gilarov âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âðà÷-ó÷àñòíèê ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 26.07.2001
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 7,196
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 713 ðàç(à) çà 691 ñîîáùåíèé
Gilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Ñàì ôàêò, êîíå÷íî, ñìóùàåò. Êðîìå òîãî, îæèäàòü ïîëüçû îò îáçèäàíà ïðè ÂÏ çàòðóäíèòåëüíî, íà ÄÏÏ îí íå äåéñòâóåò.
ÇÛ: Ïî ïîâîäó 20 ìã... Ó íàñ â ðåàíèìàöèè îò 20 ìã óìåðëà æåíùèíà îò àíàôèëàêòè÷åñêîãî øîêà. Íî, ýòî, òàê, ê ñëîâó.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #388  
Ñòàðûé 05.04.2010, 19:35
Àâàòàð äëÿ dmblok
dmblok dmblok âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Êàíäèäàò â âåòåðàíû ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 05.11.2006
Ãîðîä: Msk
Ñîîáùåíèé: 1,827
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 6
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 67 ðàç(à) çà 62 ñîîáùåíèé
dmblok ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådmblok ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådmblok ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådmblok ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådmblok ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådmblok ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådmblok ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådmblok ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådmblok ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådmblok ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìådmblok ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Âîîáùå-òî åñòü äàííûå, ÷òî áåòà-áëîêàòîðû íå ñëåäóåò íàçíà÷àòü ïðè ÌÀ íà ôîíå WPW.

Öèòàòà:
Pacing Clin Electrophysiol. 1987 May;10(3 Pt 1):492-6.
Effect of propranolol on ventricular rate during atrial fibrillation in the Wolff-Parkinson-White syndrome.
Morady F, DiCarlo LA Jr, Baerman JM, De Buitleir M.

Atrial fibrillation was induced during an electrophysiology study in 10 patients with the Wolff-Parkinson-White (WPW) syndrome, after determination of baseline properties of the accessory atrioventricular (AV) connection; intravenous propranolol (0.2 mg/kg) was then administered. Atrial fibrillation terminated during the drug infusion in three patients, allowing determination of propranolol's effects on conduction and refractoriness during sinus rhythm, before atrial fibrillation was reinduced. In these three patients propranolol had no effect on refractoriness or conduction properties of the accessory AV connection during sinus rhythm. The mean ventricular rate during atrial fibrillation was slowed by 15-56 beats/min in six patients, had no effect on the mean rate in three patients, and markedly increased the ventricular rate (203 to 267 beats/min) in one patient. In this patient, 54% of QRS complexes during atrial fibrillation were narrow, compared to 0-25% in the other patients. Propranolol reduced the percentage of QRS complexes that were narrow from 13 +/- 16% to 1 +/- 2% (mean +/- standard deviation, p less than 0.05). We conclude that propranolol may slow the ventricular rate during atrial fibrillation in some patients with the WPW syndrome, probably by blocking the effects of adrenergic activation. However, propranolol should not be used in patients with the WPW syndrome who have atrial fibrillation, if most QRS complexes during atrial fibrillation are preexcited. When a large percentage of QRS complexes are narrow, propranolol may increase the ventricular rate, probably by eliminating concealed retrograde conduction in the accessory AV connection.
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò tourunov Ïîñìîòðåòü ñîîáùåíèå
Äà, ñîãëàñåí ñ Âàìè, ñêîðåå âñåãî - íå î÷åíü è âèíîâàò, âñå-òàêè âñåãî 20 ìã. Íî ñàì ôàêò !?
40 ìã, åñëè ýòî èìååò çíà÷åíèå.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #389  
Ñòàðûé 05.04.2010, 21:10
Yariko Yariko âíå ôîðóìà
ÂÐÀ×
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 07.07.2008
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 5,871
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 16
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 2,141 ðàç(à) çà 2,050 ñîîáùåíèé
Yariko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåYariko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåYariko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåYariko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåYariko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåYariko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåYariko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåYariko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåYariko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåYariko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåYariko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò tourunov Ïîñìîòðåòü ñîîáùåíèå
ÔÏ.WPW->ÔÆ->ÝÈÒ->Ñð.WPW
×òî íàçûâàåòñÿ: "Óæ ñêîëüêî ðàç òâåðäèëè ìèðó..." (ýòî ÿ ïðî íàçíà÷åíèå á-áëîêåðîâ ïðè ÔÏ ñ ñèíäðîìîì WPW)
Íà äîãîñïèòàëüíîì ýòàïå äåëî ïðîèñõîäèëî?
 ðåêîìåíäàöèÿõ ïî ÔÏ îäíîçíà÷íûå ïðîòèâîïîêàçàíèÿ ïðîïèñàíû òîëüêî äëÿ ãëèêîçèäîâ è íåäèãèäðîïèðèäèíîâûõ àíòàãîíèñòîâ êàëüöèÿ
Öèòàòà:
Class III
Intravenous administration of digitalis glycosides or nondihydropyridine calcium channel antagonists is not recommended in patients with WPW syndrome who have preexcited ventricular activation during AF. (Level of Evidence: B)
Öèòàòà:
Specifically, administration of AV nodal blocking agents such as digoxin, diltiazem, or verapamil is contraindicated.
 òîæå âðåìÿ, ïðî áåòà-áëîêàòîðû ñêàçàíî
Öèòàòà:
Beta blockers are ineffective in this situation, and their administration via the intravenous route may have adverse hemodynamic effects.
__________________
Ñ óâàæåíèåì
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #390  
Ñòàðûé 05.04.2010, 21:22
Àâàòàð äëÿ Gilarov
Gilarov Gilarov âíå ôîðóìà ÂÐÀ×
Âðà÷-ó÷àñòíèê ôîðóìà
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 26.07.2001
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 7,196
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 713 ðàç(à) çà 691 ñîîáùåíèé
Gilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåGilarov ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Öèòàòà:
Ñîîáùåíèå îò dmblok Ïîñìîòðåòü ñîîáùåíèå
Âîîáùå-òî åñòü äàííûå, ÷òî áåòà-áëîêàòîðû íå ñëåäóåò íàçíà÷àòü ïðè ÌÀ íà ôîíå WPW.
 ñòàòüå ðå÷ü øëà î ìåðöàëêå ñ óçêèìè êîìïëåêñàìè è â êà÷åñòâå îòðèöàòåëüíîãî ïðèìåðà ïðèâåäåí 1 ïàöèåíò, à ó 6 ×ÑÑ ñíèçèëàñü. Íî îñîáîãî ñìûñëà åãî ââåäåíèå âñå ðàâíî íå èìååò.
Öèòàòà:
 ðåêîìåíäàöèÿõ îäíîçíà÷íûå ïðîòèâîïîêàçàíèÿ ïðîïèñàíû òîëüêî äëÿ ãëèêîçèäîâ è íåäèãèäðîïèðèäèíîâûõ àíòàãîíèñòîâ êàëüöèÿ
Êñòàòè, ÷èñòî òåîðåòè÷åñêè, íàñêîëüêî áû óõóäøèëî ñèòóàöèþ ó ïðèâåäåííîãî ïàöèåíòà ââåäåíèå âåðàïàìèëà?
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
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