#1
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ãåïàòîïðîòåêòîðû
Óâàæàåìûå êîëëåãè. Ìíîãî íàñëûøàíà ïðî òî, ÷òî ÿêîáû íåò äîêàçàòåëüíîé áàçû äëÿ ïðèìåíåíèÿ ãåïàòîïðîòåêòîðîâ âîîáùå. Íî â äàííîì ñëó÷àå ìåíÿ èíòåðåñóåò íåñêîëüêî èíîé âîïðîñ. À èìåííî î ïðîòèâîïîêàçàíèÿõ. Åñòü ëè ãäå èíôîðìàöèÿ î òîì, ÷òî èõ íåëüçÿ ïðèìåíÿòü ïðè ïîâûøåíèè âûøå îïðåäåëåííîãî óðîâíÿ òðàíñàìèíàç ïðè îñòðûõ èëè îáîñòåíèé õðîíè÷åñêèõ ãåïàòèòîâ. Ãäå îá ýòîì ïðî÷èòàòü è êàêîâ äîëæåí áûòü èõ óðîâåíü? Ñïàñèáî.
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#2
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Òî åñòü, äðóãèìè ñëîâàìè, Âû ñïðàøèâàåòå î ãåïàòîòîêñè÷íîñòè ãåïàòîïðîòåêòîðîâ, ïëàíèðóåòå íàçíà÷àòü èõ â òåõ ñèòóàöèÿõ, êîãäà ãåïàòîïðîòåêòîðû áóäóò îáëàäàòü ïîòåíöèàëüíî íàèìåíüøèì ãåïàòîòîêñè÷åñêèì äåéñòâèåì. Ò.å., æåëàòåëüíî, çäîðîâûì äîáðîâîëüöàì. ß ïðàâèëüíî âñå ïîíÿë? Î ìîòèâàõ íå ñïðàøèâàþ. |
#3
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ìíå ãîâîðèëè, ÷òî ïîâûøåíèå òðàíñàìèíàç íàïðèìåð äî 300, ýòî ïðîòèâîïîêàçàíèå. Íî ãäå ýòî íàïèñàíî íå ñêàçàëè.
Äîêòîð, åñëè âû âëàäååòå èíôîðìàöèåé ÷òî ýòî íåïðàâäà, òî íàïèøèòå îá ýòîì. P.S.: êîãäà ÿ ïèñàëà ñþäà, ÿ ìåíüøå âñåãî îæèäàëà íàñìåøåê ![]() |
#4
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Óâàæàåìàÿ êîëåãà, äà Âàø âîïðîñ ìåíÿ ïîâåñåëèë. Åñëè Âû ñàìè åãî ëîãè÷åñêè ïðîàíàëèçèðóåòå, äóìàþ è ó Âàñ ïîäíèìåòñÿ íàñòðîåíèå.
Êàê Âû ïðåäñòàâëÿåòå, êëàññ ãåïàòîïðîòåêòîðîâ êðàéíå íåîäíîðîäåí è îáñóæäàòü åãî öåëèêîì ñìûñëà íå èìååò, ìîæíî îáñóæäàòü êîíêðåòíûå ïðåïàðàòû ïðè êîíêðåòíûõ íîçîëîãèÿõ. Âû ïðåäëàãàåòå îñòàâèòü çà áîðòîì äîêàçàííîñòü ýôôåêòèâíîñòè ãåïàòîïðîòåêòîðîâ, íî äîïóñòèìî ëè ñòàâèòü âîïðîñ î áåçîïàñíîñòè çàâåäîìî íå ýôôåêòèâíîãî ïðåïàðàòà, íå ëîãè÷íî ëè, ÷òî îí íàçíà÷àòüñÿ íå äîëæåí. Åñëè ãîâîðèòü î âñå æå èìåþùåéñÿ äîêàçàòåëüíîé áàçå, õîòÿ è ñêðîìíîé, íàïðèìåð, àäåìåòèîíèíà ïðè àëêîãîëüíîì ãåïàòèòå èëè óðñîäåçîêñèõîëèåâîé êèñëîòû ïðè õîëåñòàòè÷åñêèõ ñèíäðîìàõ, òî òàêèõ îãðàíè÷åíèé òàì íåò. |
#5
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Óâàæàåìûé, êîëëåãà, ýòè ñâåäåíèÿ ÿ ïîëó÷èëà íå îò áàáêè íà áàçàðå, à îò ëèö, êîòîðûì ïðèõîäèòñÿ äâåðÿòü, êîòîðûå, êàê è âû êàíäèäàòû ìåäèöèíñêèõ íàóê, íî, ê ñîæàëåíèþ, îíè íå ãàñòðîåíòåðîëîãè, à âñåãî ëèøü òåðàïåâòû. È âîïðîñ îíè ñòàâèëè èìåííî òàê, êàê ÿ âàì îïèñàëà. Ýòî îíè óïîòðåáèëè òåðìèí "ãåïàòîïðòåêòîðû", ê êîòîðûì ìîæíî îòíåñòè è óðñîäåçîêñèõîëåâóþ êèñëîòó è àäåìèòèîíèí, êîòðûå âû ïðèâîäèòå â ïðèìåðå. Òî åñòü, ïî âàøåìó ìíåíèþ, íèêàêèå, êðîìå óêàçàííûõ âàìè ê ïðèìåíåíèþ âîîáùå íå ãîäíû, íå ãîâîðÿ óæå î ñèòóàöèè, îïèñàííîé ìíîé? È âîò åùå. Òî åñòü ïðè àëêîãîëüíîì ãåïàòèòå ïðè ëþáîì óðîâíå òðàíñàìèíàç è ëþáîé òÿæåñòè ñîñòîÿíèÿ âîçìîæíî è èìååò ñìûñë ïðèìåíåíèå àäåìåòèîíèíà?
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#6
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Äîêòîð, à çà÷åì Âàì êîìó-òî äîâåðÿòü, â òîì ÷èñëå è ìíå? Äîïóñêàåòå ëè Âû, ÷òî áàáêà íà áàçàðå ìîæåò îêàçàòüñÿ êàíäèäàòîì ìåäèöèíñêèõ íàóê, è íàïðîòèâ, ÷òî íåêîòîðûå êàíäèäàòû íàóê ìîãóò áûòü áàáêàìè è õîäèòü íà áàçàð? Ìîæåò ïîêàçàòüñÿ, ÷òî ÿ èçäåâàþñü íàä Âàøèìè ñîñëóæèâöàìè, ýòî íå òàê, ÿ èëëþñòðèðóþ, ÷òî íåçàâèñèìî îò òèòóëà ìîæíî ñêàçàòü âñÿêóþ ãëóïîñòü è áûòü íîñèòåëåì ïðîôåññèîíàëüíûõ ïðåäðàññóäêîâ. ×èòàéòå ïåðâîèñòî÷íèê [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]
çäåñü Âû íàéäåòå îòâåò, åñëè çàïðîñ áóäåò î êîíêðåòíûõ ïðåïàðàòàõ, î "ãåïàòîïðîòåêòîðàõ", áîþñü, òàì íè÷åãî íåò. |
#7
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ß çàäàëà âîïðîñ, ÷òîáû ìíå äàëè ññûëêó íà ïóáëèêàöèþ, êîòîðàÿ ëèáî ýòî îïðîâåðãàåò ëèáî ïîäòâåðæäàåò. Òîëüêî è âñåãî. Íè â êîåì ñëó÷àå íå íàñòàèâàþ, ÷òî ìîè èñòî÷íèêè ëó÷øå, ÷åì ÷üè ëèáî äðóãèå. Ñïàñèáî çà ññûëêó íà ïàá ìåä. Î÷åíü ïðèÿòíî åùå ðàç ïîðûòüñÿ â ïîèñêîâèêå. Èçâèíèòå, ÷òî îòíÿëà âàøå âðåìÿ.
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#8
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Âû çàäàëè íåêîððåêòíûé âîïðîñ è ïîëó÷èëè ñîîòâåòñòâóþùèé îòâåò.
Âîçìîæåí çàïðîñ "ïðèìåíåíèå ïðåïàðàòà × ïðè ïàòîëîãèè Y", íî ãðóïïà ïðåïàðàòîâ (â îñíîâíîì áåç äîêàçàííîé ýôôåêòèâíîñòè) ïðè íåîãðàíè÷åííîì êðóãå ïàòîëîãèé ñ ó÷åòîì îäíîãî íåñïåöèôè÷åñêîãî ïîêàçàòåëÿ. Òàêîå ïðÿìîìó çàïðîñó íå ïîääàåòñÿ, à ïðîâîäèòü ìåòààíàëèç çà Âàñ âðÿä ëè êòî òî áóäåò. Âîîáùåì ó÷èì ìàò÷àñòü (ñ) [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]
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Ñ óâàæåíèåì, Âàëåðèé Âàëåðüåâè÷ Ñàìîéëåíêî |
#9
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High-dose ursodeoxycholic acid for the treatment of primary sclerosing cholangitis
Ïðîñòî ê ñëîâó.
Hepatology. 2009 Sep;50(3):671-3. Abstract Previous controlled trials are inconclusive regarding the efficacy of ursodeoxycholic acid (UDCA) for treating primary sclerosing cholangitis (PSC). One hundred fifty adult patients with PSC were enrolled in a long-term, randomized, double-blind controlled trial of high-dose UDCA (28-30 mg/kg/day) versus placebo. Liver biopsy and cholangiography were performed before randomization and after 5 years. The primary outcome measures were development of cirrhosis, varices, cholangiocarcinoma, liver transplantation, or death. The study was terminated after 6 years due to futility. At enrollment, the UDCA (n = 76) and placebo (n = 74) groups were similar with respect to sex, age, duration of disease, serum aspartate aminotransferase and alkaline phosphatase levels, liver histology, and Mayo risk score. During therapy, aspartate aminotransferase and alkaline phosphatase levels decreased more in the UDCA group than the placebo group (P < 0.01), but improvements in liver tests were not associated with decreased endpoints. By the end of the study, 30 patients in the UDCA group (39%) versus 19 patients in the placebo group (26%) had reached one of the pre-established clinical endpoints. After adjustment for baseline stratification characteristics, the risk of a primary endpoint was 2.3 times greater for patients on UDCA than for those on placebo (P < 0.01) and 2.1 times greater for death, transplantation, or minimal listing criteria (P = 0.038). Serious adverse events were more common in the UDCA group than the placebo group (63% versus 37% [P < 0.01]). Conclusion: Long-term, high-dose UDCA therapy is associated with improvement in serum liver tests in PSC but does not improve survival and was associated with higher rates of serious adverse events. [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ] |
#10
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Åñëè ãîâîðèòü î âñå æå èìåþùåéñÿ äîêàçàòåëüíîé áàçå, õîòÿ è ñêðîìíîé, íàïðèìåð, àäåìåòèîíèíà ïðè àëêîãîëüíîì ãåïàòèòå èëè óðñîäåçîêñèõîëèåâîé êèñëîòû ïðè õîëåñòàòè÷åñêèõ ñèíäðîìàõ, òî òàêèõ îãðàíè÷åíèé òàì íåò.
Óâàæàåìûå ãîñïîäà! Ïîìîãèòå ðàçîáðàòüñÿ íà÷èíàþùåìó âðà÷ó- êàê æå áûòü, íàïðèìåð, ñ ïàöèåíòàìè ñ êðèïòîãåííûì ãåïàòèòîì ñ âûðàæåííûì öèòîëèòè÷åñêèì ñèäðîìîì? Ðàáîòàþ â ïîëèêëèííèêå (âîçìîæíîñòè â\â ââåäåíèÿ ââåäåíèÿ ëåê. ñðåäñòâ (íàïðèìåð, ãåïòðàëà) íåò). Îïÿòü æå â ÌÝÑàõ çâó÷àò èìåííî ïðåñëîâóòûå ãåïàòîïðîòåêòîðû. |
#11
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Öèòàòà:
[Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ] Íà÷íèòå ñ ýòèõ òàáëè÷åê. èëè "Approach to the patient with abnormal liver function tests" â ãóãëå
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Ýòî âñå äåéñòâèòåëüíî íåîáõîäèìî èëè òàê äîëæíî áûòü? |
#12
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 íàøèõ óñëîâèÿõ, êðèïòîãåííûé ãåïàòèò âñå ÷àùå èç áóòûëêè âûòåêàåò...
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#13
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Áîëüøîå ñïàñèáî çà ññûëêè. Ê ñîæàëåíèþ ñåé÷àñ ó ìåíÿ íåò äîñòóïà ê ìåä äîêóìåíòàöèè ìîèõ ïàöèåíòîâ, íî â áëèæàéøåå âðåìÿ ïîñòàðàþñü âûáðàòüñÿ íà ðàáîòó è áîëåå ïîäðîáíî ïðèâåñòè äàííûå àíàëèçîâ è äèàãíîçû,êîòîðûå ÿ èìåëà â âèäó. Ñåé÷àñ ïî-ïàìÿòè ìîãó ïðèâåñòè äàíûå îäíîé èç ïàöèåíòîê: æåíùèíà 38 ëåò. Íàáëþäàåòñÿ ïî-ïîâîäó àðòåðèàëüíîé ãèïåðòîíèè 2ñò. Ïîñòîÿííî ïðèíèìàåò ïðåñòàðèóì 5 ìã, àðèôîí-ðåòàðä. Ïîñêîëüêó ïàöèåíòêà ðåäêî "çàãëÿäûâàåò" â ïîëèêëèííèêó, òî âî âðåìÿ âèçèòà íàçíà÷àåì îáñëåäîâàíèå ïî-ìàêñèìóìó âîçìîæíîãî (è ðàçðåøåííîãî ÌÝÑàìè)-â òîì ÷èñëå áèîõ àíàëèç êðîâè. Âñå ïîêàçàòåëè â íîðìå, êðîìå ÀÑÒ è ÀËÒ- 160 è 250 ñîîò-íî. Ïàöèåíòêà ñðî÷íî âûçûâàåòñÿ â ïîëèêëèííèêó-íàçí äîï îáñëåäîâàíèÿ. È âîò âñòàåò âîïðîñ: íà ýòîì ïðèåìå ÿ äîëæíà íàçíà÷èòü ãåïàòîïðîòåêòîðû ( åñëè äà, òî êàêèå?) èëè äîëæíà îòïðàâèòü ïàöèåíòêó "áåç ëå÷åíèÿ" äî âûÿñíåíèÿ ïðè÷èíû? Êàê èíòåðåñíî ê ýòîìó îòíåñóòñÿ çàâåäóþùàÿ è ñòðàõ êîìïàíèÿ? Äîáàâëþ, ÷òî ñàìó áîëüíóþ êðîìå ïåðèîäè÷åñêîãî ïîâûøåíèÿ ÀÄ, íè÷åãî íå áåñïîêîèò. Ïðèåì àëêîãîëÿ èëè ãåïàòîòîêñè÷íûõ ñðåäñòâ îòðèöàåò (ýòî ñêîðåå ïðàâäà). Îáúåêòèâíî-åñëè ïðèäèðàòüñÿ-ïå÷åíü +0.5 ñì èç-ïîä ðåáåðíîé äóãè. Íà óçè- óòîëùåíèå ñòåíîê æåë÷íîãî ïóçûðÿ. Íà ìîìåíò ìîåãî óõîäà ïðèøëè àíàëèçû íà ìàðêåðû âèð ãåïàòèòîâ-îòðèö.
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#14
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À êàêóþ ìàññó òåëà èìååò ïàöèåíòêà 38 ëåò ñ àðòåðèàëüíîé ãèïåðòåíçèåé?
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#15
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Çàäà÷à íå íàçíà÷èòü ãåïàòîïðîòåêòîðû, à ïîñòàðàòüñÿ óñòàíîâèòü ïðè÷èíó öèòîëèçà. Êàêîâû ÃÃÒ, ÙÔ, ËÄÃ? Êàêîâû ïîêàçàòåëè öâåòíîñòè êðàñíîé êðîâè è ôåððèòèí? Ôðàêöèè ëåéêîöèòîâ, åñòü ëè øèðîêîïëàçìåííûå ôîðìû? Êàêèå òåñòû íà âèðóñû ãåïàòèòîâ ïðîâåäåíû? Åñòü ëè íàðóøåíèå òîëåðàíòíîñòè ê ãëþêîçå, ñìîòðåëè ëè ãëèêèðîâàííûé ãåìîãëîáèí?
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