Äèñêóññèîííûé Êëóá Ðóññêîãî Ìåäèöèíñêîãî Ñåðâåðà
MedNavigator.ru - Ïîèñê è ïîäáîð ëå÷åíèÿ â Ðîññèè è çà ðóáåæîì
  #16  
Ñòàðûé 08.11.2004, 12:22
drbormental drbormental âíå ôîðóìà Ïîë ìóæñêîé
Íà÷èíàþùèé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 23.10.2004
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 21
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 5
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 1 ðàç çà 1 ñîîáùåíèå
drbormental *
Âû ìîæåòå èðîíèçèðîâàòü ñêîëüêî óãîäíî, íî áûòü ìîæåò óâàæåìûå îïïîíåíòû ñîáëàãîâîëÿò ñîãëàñèòüñÿ, ÷òî ïðè âûñîêîì èëè íîðìàëüíîì óðîâíå ËÃ, è ïîëîæèòåëüíîé õîð-é ïðîáå ëå÷åíèå ãîíàäîòðîïèíîì ïðîòèâîïîêàçàíî. Ýòî ñòàíäàðòíîå ìíåíèå î÷åíü ìíîãèõ àâòîðîâ.
Òî ÷òî êðèïòîðõèçì êàê ïðàâèëî çàáîëåâàíèå ñèñòåìíîå, à íå èçîëèðîâàííîå, èçâåñòíî äàæå ¸æèêó. À èçëàãàòü îñíîâû ýíäîêðèíîëîãèè è ðàññêàçûâàòü ÷òî òàêîå ãèïîòàëàìî ãèïîôèçàðíûé ñèíäðîì- èçâèíèòå ýòî äåëàþò â Âóçàõ.
Ïî ïîâîäó îïåðàöèè - ïî ìîåìó ìîé îòâåò áûë êàòåãîðè÷åí è íå èäåò âðàçðåç ñ âàøèì - îïåðèðîâàòü. Òàê ÷òî, ÷òî ïûëü ïîäíèìàòü?
Ïî ïîâîäó äåòñêîé àíäðîëîãèè: òàêàÿ ñïåöèàëüíîñòü âíåñåíà â ðååñòð â ïðîøëîì ãîäó. Î÷åíü æàëü ÷òî ýòî ñîáûòèå ïðîøëî ìèìî óâàæàåìîé àóäèòîðèè. Òàê æå êàê ìèìî ïðîøåë ñóäÿ ïî âñåìó ïîñëåäíèé êîíãðåñ íîâûõ òåõíîëîãèé â ïåäèàòðèè. Ïðîáëåìå äåòñêîé àíäðîëîãèè òàì áûë ïîñâÿùåí êðóãëûé ñòîë.
Äà, åùå îäèí ìîìåíò, ïî÷åìó íèêîãî èç ìíîãî óâàæåìîé àóäèòîðèè íå íàïðÿã ñòðàííûé ïðîòîêîë óçè? Àïïàðàòîì êàêîãî êëàññà ìîæíî èññëåäîâàòü ïðèäàòîê è ïîäâåñîê ó 1,5 ëåòíåãî ðåáåíêà? Âîò óæ ãäå ëîõîòðîí.
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #17  
Ñòàðûé 08.11.2004, 18:12
Àâàòàð äëÿ Melnichenko
Melnichenko Melnichenko âíå ôîðóìà
ÂÐÀ×
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 26.07.2001
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 117,271
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 26
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 33,621 ðàç(à) çà 32,695 ñîîáùåíèé
Melnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Èìåííî êàê Âóçîâñêèé ïðåïîäàâàòåëü ÿ î÷åíü -î÷åíü èíòåðåñóþñü - êàê ÷àñòî Âàì ïîïàäàëèñü äåòêè îäíîãî ãîäà îò ðîäó ñ âûñîêèì ËÃ,cêîëüêî ýòî - âûñîêîå ËÃ, ÷òî òàêîå ïîë. õîð-ÿ ïðîáà â ãîäîâàëîì âîçðàñòå, êðèòåðèè , ïîêàçàíèÿ ê ïðîâåäåíèþ,è ÷òî âñå-òàêè â âóçå ïðåïîäàþò ïîä ãðîçíûì íàèìåíîâàíèåì "ãèïîòàëàìî -ãèïîôèçàðíûé ñèíäðîì",èñêëþ÷àòü êîòîðûé íàäî ó ãîäîâàëîãî ðåáåíêà ñ êðèïòîðõèçìîì?È êàêèå ãîðìîíû èññëåäîâàòü?Ëà - óæå ïîíÿëà, åùå ÷òî ?
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Ã.À. Ìåëüíè÷åíêî
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #18  
Ñòàðûé 14.11.2004, 22:53
drbormental drbormental âíå ôîðóìà Ïîë ìóæñêîé
Íà÷èíàþùèé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 23.10.2004
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 21
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 5
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 1 ðàç çà 1 ñîîáùåíèå
drbormental *
Çäðàâñòâóéòå ãîñïîäà, ÷òî æå, äàâàéòå îáñóäèì ïðåäìåòû èðîíèè. Ñðàçó õî÷ó îòìåòèòü, ÷òî êîãäà ÿ äàâàë îòâåò, òî äàâàë åãî ÷åëîâåêó, êîòîðûé íå èìååò íèêàêîãî îòíîøåíèÿ ê ìåäèöèíå. Íî åñëè Âû òàê íàñòàèâàåòå, äàâàéòå ïîóìíè÷àåì. Ïðåäâèæó ÷òî âñòóïàÿ â ïîëåìèêó ñ ïðîôåññîðîì ýíäîêðèíîëîãèè, ñêîðåå âñåãî ïðîèãðàþ, òåì íå ìåíåå, ïîñìåþ âñå òàêè âûñêàçàòü ÑÂΨ, ËÈ×ÍÎÅ ÌÍÅÍÈÅ, õîòÿ è ñôîðìèðîâàâøååñÿ íà îñíîâàíèè ïðî÷èòàííîé ëèòåðàòóðû.
Âíà÷àëå êîðîòêèé îòâåò: âûñîêèé óðîâåíü Ëà ìîæåò áûòü ïðè ïåðâè÷íîé ïðèîáðåòåííîé íåäîñòàòî÷íîñòè òåñòèêóëÿðíûõ ýíäîêðèíîöèòîâ è ïðè àíîðõèçìå. Ïî íåêîòîðûì äàííûì ýòî ïîêàçàòåëü ìîæåò áûòü ïîâûøåí ñ øåñòè ìåñÿöåâ, õîòÿ íà ìîé âçãëÿä âîïðîñ ñïîðíûé. Íî ïðîñòèòå à ãäå Âû â ìîåì ñîîáùåíèè ïðî÷èòàëè ñëîâà âûñîêèé Ëà â âîçðàñòå îäèí ãîä?õîðèîãîãîíèíîâàÿ ïðîáà â 1 ãîä? Òêíèòå ïîæàëóéñòà ïàëüöåì!
Ñðàçó ïðèçíàþ, ãèïîòàëàìî ãèïîôèçàðíûé ñèíäðîì – æàðãîí, â ýòîì íå ïðàâ, èçâèíèòå, ïîýòîìó ïåðåéäó ê áîëåå ïðèåìëåìîìó òåðìèíó ãèïîòàëàìè÷åñêîé ñèíäðîì ñ íàðóøåíèåì ãèïîòàëàìî – ãèïîôèçàðíûõ âçàèìîäåéñòâèé è âòîðè÷íûì ãèïîãîíàäèçìîì. Íàäåþñü, ÷òî äàííûé òåðìèí ïðèåìëåì äëÿ äîñòîïî÷òèìîé àóäèòîðèè.
Íà÷íåì ñ êðèïòîðõèçìà, êàê òàêîâîãî. ß óïîâàþ íà òî, ÷òî ó íàñ íå áóäåò ñïîðîâ î òîì, ÷òî ãîðìîíàëüíûå èçìåíåíèÿ ïðè êðèïòîðõèçìå ïëþðèãëàíäóëÿðíîãî õàðàêòåðà. Íà ïåðâûé âçãëÿä ñóùåñòâóåò ïàòîãìîíè÷íûé ïîêàçàòåëü êðèïòîðõèçìà - ËÃ. Ñ äðóãîé ñòîðîíû ó äîñòàòî÷íî áîëüøîé ãðóïïû äåòåé îòìå÷àþòñÿ ñèìïòîìû ïîðàæåíèÿ ùèòîâèäíîé æåëåçû (ó 50% äåòåé ñ êðèïòîðõèçìîì îòìå÷àåòñÿ ïîíèæåíèå îñíîâíîãî îáìåíà). Íî îæèðåíèå ïðè êðèïòîðõèçìå ìîæåò áûòü âûçâàíî è äèñïëàñòè÷åñêèìè èçìåíåíèÿìè â ÖÍÑ. Äëÿ êðèïòîðõèçìà õàðàêòåðíà âòîðè÷íîèíäóöèðóåìàÿ ïåðåñòðîéêà ñîïðÿæåííûõ ñ ðåïðîäóêòèâíîé ñèñòåìîé äðóãèõ ãîðìîíàëüíûõ ñèñòåì (íàäïî÷å÷íèêîâîé, è îïÿòü òàêè òèðåîèäíîé). Êðèïòîðõèçì ìîæåò ñîïðîâîæäàòüñÿ èçîëèðîâàííûì äåôèöèòîì ÔÑÃ. Åñòü ëè ñìûñë ïè÷êàòü ðåáåíêà ëåêàðñòâîì ïðîâîäÿ ïðîáó, åñëè ìîæíî âçÿòü ãîðìîíû êðîâè?
Äðóãèì ñëîâîì, áûòü ìîæåò ñòîèò áîëüíîãî ñ êðèïòîðõèçìîì ðàññìàòðèâàòü ñ ýíäîêðèíîëîãè÷åñêèõ ïîçèöèé ó÷èòûâàÿ äâà îñíîâíûõ âàðèàíòà ôîðìèðîâàíèÿ ãîðìîíàëüíî îáóñëîâëåííûõ çàäåðæåê ÿè÷åê:
1 çà ñ÷åò íåäîñòàòî÷íîé ñòèìóëÿöèè ãîíàäîòðîïèíîì (êàê ïðàâèëî âñòðå÷àåòñÿ îí, ìàøèòå «øàøêîé» è âñå áóäåò õîðîøî)
2 çà ñ÷åò ïåðâè÷íîé àíäðîãåííîé íåäîñòàòî÷íîñòè
Âòîðîé ñîïóòñòâóåò ñèíäðîìàì Êëÿíôåëòåðà (1% âñåõ êðèïòîðõèçìîâ), òåñòèêóëÿðíîé ôåìèíèçàöèè, âðîæäåííîé äâóñòîðîííåé ãèïîïëàçèè ÿè÷åê (ÿè÷êè èçíà÷àëüíî ñòðóêòóðíî è ìîðôîëîãè÷åñêè äåãåíåðèðîâàíû), Øåðøíåâñêîãî –Òåðíåðà, äåëü Êàñòèëüî, Êàëëìåíà, Ìýääîêà…
Íå ñòîèò ñáðàñûâàòü ñî ñ÷åòà ïðèîáðåòåííûé ãèïîãîíàäèèçì: Ëîðåíñà- Ìóíà- Áàðäå-Áèäëÿ, Ïðàäåðà- Âèëëè., ãèïîãîíàäèçì ïðè ãèïîòàëàìè÷åñêîì ñèíäðîìå â ðåçóëüòàòå òðàâìàòè÷åñêîãî, èíôåêöèîííî âîñïàëèòåëüíîãî èëè îïóõîëåâîãî ïîðàæåíèÿ ãèïîòàëàìî-ãèïîôèçàðíîé îáëàñòè. ß íàäåþñü ìíå íå íàäî óáåæäàòü ìíîãîóâàæàåìóþ àóäèòîðèþ, ÷òî âñå ýòè ñîñòîÿíèÿ ìîãóò ñîïðîâîæäàòüñÿ çàäåðæêîé ÿè÷åê. Ìîæåò ëè èç âàñ (ÿ îáðàùàþñü ê óðîëîãàì) êòî íèáóäü íà ãëàç îòëè÷èòü ñèíäðîì Ïðàäåðà-Âèëëè îò áàíàëüíîãî êðèïòîðõèçìà ïðîòåêàþùåãî ñ ñî÷åòàííûì ïîðàæåíèåì ùèòîâèäíîé æåëåçû? Äåòè íà âíåøíèé âèä èíîãäà î÷åíü ïîõîæè: ãîòè÷åñêîå í¸áî, îæèðåíèå, óìñòâåííàÿ îòñòàëîñòü, ýïèêàíò â îäíîì ñëó÷àå è ðàñøèðåííàÿ ïåðåíîñèöà, ýïèêàíò, äèñïëàçèÿ è íèçêîå ðàñïîëîæåíèå óøíûõ ðàêîâèí, ãîòè÷åñêîå í¸áî, óìñòâåíàÿ îòñòàëîñòü â äðóãîì. ß óìûøëåííî îïóñòèë íåêîòîðûå ñèìòîìû, ñìåþ çàâåðèòü, ÷òî íè îäèí óðîëîã íå îáðàùàåò âíèìàíèå ê ïðèìåðó íà íàëè÷èå ìåòàêàðïàëüíîãî ñèíäðîìà, íàðóøåíèå çóáíîé ýìàëè, ïîïåðå÷íóþ ïîëîñó ëàäîíè.
Ãèïîãîíàäèçì ïðè ãèïîòàëàìè÷åñêîì ñèíäðîìå â ðåçóëüòàòå òðàâìàòè÷åñêîãî, èíôåêöèîííî âîñïàëèòåëüíîãî èëè îïóõîëåâîãî ïîðàæåíèÿ ãèïîòàëàìî-ãèïîôèçàðíîé îáëàñòè. Ïî äàííûì ëèòåðàòóðû â ýòèîëîãèè ëåæàò ïåðåíåñåííûå âíóòðèóòðîáíî : ýíöåôàëèò, òîêñîïëàçìîç, òóáåðêóëåçíûé ìèíèíãåîýíöåôàëèò, âèðóñíûå èíôåêöèè, ðîäîâûå òðàâìû, îïóõîëè ãèïîôèçà, îïóõîëè ñåðîãî áóãðà, ïðîäîëãîâàòîãî ìîçãà, ìåäèîáàçàëüíîãî ãèïîòàëàìóñà. Ãäå íàïèñàíî, ÷òî ïîäîçðåâàòü ýòè ïîðàæåíèÿ ó ãîäîâàëîãî ðåáåíêà íåïðàâîìåðíî? Èëè ÷òî, åñëè òàêîé ðåáåíîê áóäåò îäèí íà ñòî òî îí íå â ñ÷åò?
Ðåçþìå:Òàêèì îáðàçîì: âçÿâ îïðåäåëåííûé íàáîð ãîðìîíîâ: ËÃ,ÔÑÃ,Ò, ÏÐË, ÒÒÃ, Ê, ýñòðàäèîë (âñåãî îäèí óêîë â âåíó, äà è ïî äåíüãàì íå íàêëàäíåå ÷åì âñå âàøè ïðîáû), è ïîñìîòðåâ èõ ñîîòíîøåíèå ìîæíî ñðàçó ïîíÿòü, êîãî ñòîèò ñòèìóëèðîâàòü, êîãî îïåðèðîâàòü, è êîìó îïåðàöèÿ íå ïîêàçàíà â ïðèíöèïå, à ïîä÷àñ ïðîòèâîïîêàçàíà.
Íå ñî÷òèòå ìîå ïèñüìî, êàê ïîïûòêó êîãî òî óåñòü, Ïðîñòî î÷åíü ãîðüêî îáúÿñíÿòü ðîäèòåëÿì áîëüíîãî ñ ñèíäðîìîì Êëÿéíôåëüòåðà, êîòîðîìó êîãäà òî íèçâåëè ÿè÷êè è ñêàçàëè, ÷òî âñå áóäåò õîðîøî, ÷òî õîðîøî íè÷åãî íèêîãäà íå áóäåò. Äà è âîîáùå, äåòåé ñ íèçâåäåííûìè è ïîòîì ïî êàêîé òî ïðè÷èíå àòðîôèðîâàâøèìèñÿ ÿè÷êàìè äîñòàòî÷íî ìíîãî.
Èíòåðåñíî, ïî÷åìó, åñëè ìåíÿ, ñóäÿ ïî âàøèì ðåïëèêàì, îêðóæàþò âñ¸ çíàþùèå, ñ ïðåêðàñíûì ÷óâñòâîì þìîðà, âûñîêâàëèôèöèðîâàííûå õèðóðãè è ýíäîêðèíîëîãè?
È âñå òàêè, ïîæàëóéñòà, îòâåòüòå íà ìîé âîïðîñ, ïî ïîâîäó ÓÇÈ? Ïîêàæèòå ìíå ïîäâåñîê ó ïîëóòîðàãîäîâàëîãî ðåáåíêà íà ÓÇÈ. ß íà ëîäæèêå 400 íå ìîãó èõ óâèäåòü, òàê æå êàê ïðèäàòîê, âèæó òîëüêî ãîëîâêó ïðèäàòêà. Êóðñ îáó÷åíèÿ âèäåíèÿ ïðèäàòêà öåëèêîì è ïðèâåñêà ãîòîâ îïëàòèòü.
È åùå âîïðîñ ëè÷íî ê äîêòîðó Æèâîâó: Íàñêîëüêî ÷àñòî îí âèäåë ìàëèãíèçèðîâàííûå ÿè÷êè â âîçðàñòå äî 20 ëåò?
Best regard, dr dormental
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #19  
Ñòàðûé 15.11.2004, 01:12
Àâàòàð äëÿ Melnichenko
Melnichenko Melnichenko âíå ôîðóìà
ÂÐÀ×
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 26.07.2001
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 117,271
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 26
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 33,621 ðàç(à) çà 32,695 ñîîáùåíèé
Melnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Íàâåðíî, ÿ óòðàòèëà ñïîñîáíîñòü ÷èòàòü òåêñòû - Èòàê, ïîïðîáóþ íà÷àòü ñíà÷àëà - âîò ïåðâîå ïèñüìà , ñ êîòîðîãî íà÷àëàñü íàøà áåñåäà -" Óâàæàåìûé äîêòîð, ó ìîåãî ñûíà (1,5 ãîäà) ïðàâîñòîðîííèé êðèïòîðõèçì. Çàìåòèëè ñðàçó â ðîääîìå, æäàëè ñàìîïðîèçâîëüíîãî îïóùåíèÿ äî ãîäèêà. Íàñ îñìàòðèâàë ýíäîêðèíîëîã, êîò. ñîâåòîâàë ïðîâåñòè ãîðìîíàëüíîå èññëåäîâàíèÿ äëÿ ïðîâåðêè ôóíêöèè çäîðîâîãî ÿè÷êà. " - Ïðàâèëüíî ëè ÿ ïîíÿëà, ÷òî ðåáåíêó ïîëòîðà ãîäà - èëè íåò ?

Ä-ð Áîðìåíòàëü, â ëó÷øèõ òðàäèöèÿõ ðåêîìåíäóåò ýòîìó ðåáåíêó èññëåäîâàòü , ïîñêîëüêó ó íåãî åñòü "ÑÂΨ, ËÈ×ÍÎÅ ÌÍÅÍÈÅ, õîòÿ è ñôîðìèðîâàâøååñÿ íà îñíîâàíèè ïðî÷èòàííîé ëèòåðàòóðû ñëåäóþùèå ãîðîìîíû -ËÃ, ÔÑÃ, ÒÒÃ, ïîñêîëüêó -
" âûñîêèé óðîâåíü Ëà ìîæåò áûòü ïðè ïåðâè÷íîé ïðèîáðåòåííîé íåäîñòàòî÷íîñòè òåñòèêóëÿðíûõ ýíäîêðèíîöèòîâ è ïðè àíîðõèçìå. Ïî íåêîòîðûì äàííûì ýòî ïîêàçàòåëü ìîæåò áûòü ïîâûøåí ñ øåñòè ìåñÿöåâ," - ò.å íóæíî èññëåäîâàòü Ëà , ÷òîáû èñêëþ÷èòü àíîðõèçì ó êðèïòîðõà ?Èëè èñêëþ÷èòü â âîçðàñòå 1 ãîä ïåðâè÷íûé ãèîïãîíàäèçì?
Ïîæàëóéñòà, óêàæèòå òîò óðîâåíü Ëà ó ãîäîâàëîãî ðåáåíêà, êîòîðûé ïîçâîëÿåò Âàì èñêëþ÷àòü àíîðõèçì ó êðèïòîðõà.( ïðîäîëæåíèå ñëåäóåò)
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Ã.À. Ìåëüíè÷åíêî
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #20  
Ñòàðûé 15.11.2004, 01:26
Àâàòàð äëÿ Melnichenko
Melnichenko Melnichenko âíå ôîðóìà
ÂÐÀ×
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 26.07.2001
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 117,271
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 26
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 33,621 ðàç(à) çà 32,695 ñîîáùåíèé
Melnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Òóò æå äîêòîð ïèøåò -" Íî ïðîñòèòå à ãäå Âû â ìîåì ñîîáùåíèè ïðî÷èòàëè ñëîâà âûñîêèé Ëà â âîçðàñòå îäèí ãîä?" ....." Òêíèòå ïîæàëóéñòà ïàëüöåì!_" Òûêàþ åùå ðàç -êàêîé Ëà è çà÷åì Âû ðåêîìåíäóåòå ñìîòðåòü ðåáåíêó?
"áîëåå ïðèåìëåìîìó òåðìèíó ãèïîòàëàìè÷åñêîé ñèíäðîì ñ íàðóøåíèåì ãèïîòàëàìî – ãèïîôèçàðíûõ âçàèìîäåéñòâèé è âòîðè÷íûì ãèïîãîíàäèçìîì. Íàäåþñü, ÷òî äàííûé òåðìèí ïðèåìëåì äëÿ äîñòîïî÷òèìîé àóäèòîðèè." -÷àñ îò ÷àñó íå ëåã÷å , ò.å ìû ñìîòðèì Ëà â ãîä äëÿ äèàãíîñòèêè âòîðè÷íîãî ãèïîãîíàäèçìà - òàê êàêèå æå åãî öèôðû íàì ïîçâîëÿþò ïîñòàâèòü ýòîò ñàìûé âòîðè÷íûé ÈÇÎËÈÐÎÂÀÍÍÛÉ ãèïîãîíàäèçì ( òî áèøü ñ-ì Êàëüìàííà).- êàðëèêîâîñòè æå íåò.
È ÷åì áóäåò õóæå Êàëüìàííó , åñëè åìó íèçâåñòè ÿè÷êî ?

"Íà ïåðâûé âçãëÿä ñóùåñòâóåò ïàòîãìîíè÷íûé ïîêàçàòåëü êðèïòîðõèçìà - ËÃ." - ïàòîãîíîìîíè÷íûì ïîêàçàòåëåì êðèïòîðõèçìà ÿâëÿåòñÿ îòñóñòâèå ÿè÷êà

"Ñ äðóãîé ñòîðîíû ó äîñòàòî÷íî áîëüøîé ãðóïïû äåòåé îòìå÷àþòñÿ ñèìïòîìû ïîðàæåíèÿ ùèòîâèäíîé æåëåçû (ó 50% äåòåé ñ êðèïòîðõèçìîì îòìå÷àåòñÿ ïîíèæåíèå îñíîâíîãî îáìåíà). - à çà ýòî íàäî áèòü - è ñèëüíî..
Ïîèíæåíèå îñíîâíîãî îáìåíà ìîæåò áûòü îò ìèëëèîíà ïðè÷èí.Íà ïåðâûé âçãëÿä ñóùåñòâóåò ïàòîãìîíè÷íûé ïîêàçàòåëü êðèïòîðõèçìà - ËÃ. Ñ äðóãîé ñòîðîíû ó äîñòàòî÷íî áîëüøîé ãðóïïû äåòåé îòìå÷àþòñÿ ñèìïòîìû ïîðàæåíèÿ ùèòîâèäíîé æåëåçû (ó 50% äåòåé ñ êðèïòîðõèçìîì îòìå÷àåòñÿ ïîíèæåíèå îñíîâíîãî îáìåíà). Íî îæèðåíèå ïðè êðèïòîðõèçìå ìîæåò ãíîñòèêè ãèïîòèðîçà íå ïðèìåíÿòåñÿ óæå ãîäêîâ ýäàê 30,ñ òîé ïîðû. êàê ÷åëîâå÷åñòâî íàëàäèëî îïðåäåëíèå ÒÒÃ,êîå. ìåæäó ïðî÷èì. îïðåäåëÿþò â ðîääîìå- è ñðàçó æå íà÷èíàþò ëå÷òü ãèîïòòðîç. òàê ÷òî ê ïîëóòîðà ãîäàì âñå äàâíî óæå çíàþò, åñòü èëè íåò ãèïîòèðîç è ïîñëåäíèé êîëìïåíñèðóþò, òàê ÷òî âåäåíèå êðèïòîðõèçìà ïî îáùèì çàêîíàì. ( ïðîäîëæåíèå ñëåäóåò)
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Ã.À. Ìåëüíè÷åíêî
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #21  
Ñòàðûé 15.11.2004, 01:36
Àâàòàð äëÿ Melnichenko
Melnichenko Melnichenko âíå ôîðóìà
ÂÐÀ×
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 26.07.2001
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 117,271
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 26
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 33,621 ðàç(à) çà 32,695 ñîîáùåíèé
Melnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
"Âòîðîé ñîïóòñòâóåò ñèíäðîìàì Êëÿíôåëòåðà (1% âñåõ êðèïòîðõèçìîâ), òåñòèêóëÿðíîé ôåìèíèçàöèè, âðîæäåííîé äâóñòîðîííåé ãèïîïëàçèè ÿè÷åê (ÿè÷êè èçíà÷àëüíî ñòðóêòóðíî è ìîðôîëîãè÷åñêè äåãåíåðèðîâàíû), Øåðøíåâñêîãî –Òåðíåðà, äåëü Êàñòèëüî, Êàëëìåíà, Ìýääîêà…" - òàê -òàê.... Óæå èíòåðåñíî, îñîáåííî ïðî òåñòèêóëÿðíóþ ôåìèíèçàöèþ- Âû âèäåëè õîòü îäíó, ïðîñòî ëþáîïûòíî..
È ñ Òåðíåðàìè òîæå íåïëîõî..
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Ã.À. Ìåëüíè÷åíêî
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #22  
Ñòàðûé 15.11.2004, 01:44
Àâàòàð äëÿ Melnichenko
Melnichenko Melnichenko âíå ôîðóìà
ÂÐÀ×
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 26.07.2001
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 117,271
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 26
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 33,621 ðàç(à) çà 32,695 ñîîáùåíèé
Melnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
"Íå ñòîèò ñáðàñûâàòü ñî ñ÷åòà ïðèîáðåòåííûé ãèïîãîíàäèèçì: Ëîðåíñà- Ìóíà- Áàðäå-Áèäëÿ, Ïðàäåðà- Âèëëè., ãèïîãîíàäèçì ïðè ãèïîòàëàìè÷åñêîì ñèíäðîìå â ðåçóëüòàòå òðàâìàòè÷åñêîãî, èíôåêöèîííî âîñïàëèòåëüíîãî èëè îïóõîëåâîãî ïîðàæåíèÿ ãèïîòàëàìî-ãèïîôèçàðíîé îáëàñòè. ß íàäåþñü ìíå íå íàäî óáåæäàòü ìíîãîóâàæàåìóþ àóäèòîðèþ, ÷òî âñå ýòè ñîñòîÿíèÿ ìîãóò ñîïðîâîæäàòüñÿ çàäåðæêîé ÿè÷åê. Ìîæåò ëè èç âàñ (ÿ îáðàùàþñü ê óðîëîãàì) êòî íèáóäü íà ãëàç îòëè÷èòü ñèíäðîì Ïðàäåðà-Âèëëè îò áàíàëüíîãî êðèïòîðõèçìà ïðîòåêàþùåãî ñ ñî÷åòàííûì ïîðàæåíèåì ùèòîâèäíîé æåëåçû?" - Âû î ÷åì, ñêàæèòå íà ìèëîñòü?
Âû õîòèòå ñêàçàòü, ÷òî â Ìîñêâå ïîëíî íåëå÷åííûõ ïåðâè÷íûõ ãèïîòèðîçîâ ãîäîâàëîãî âîçðàñòà, è âñåì êðèïòîðõàì íàäî îïðåäåëÿòü ÒÒà èëè î òîì, ÷òî ïðè ñèíäðîìå õîòü Ïðàäåðà, õîòü Ëîðåíñà íåëüçÿ îïóñêàòü ÿè÷êî, ïîêà íå îïðåäåëèøü Ëà ?
È. íàêîíåö. ïî Êëàéíôåëüòåðó - ýòîò ñ-ì âñòðå÷àåòñÿ ó 1 èç 500 íîâîðæäåííûõ, íî, ÷åðò ïîáåðè, íå ïî Ëà æå îí äèàãíîñòèðóåòñÿ â ãîä -è íèêàê íå ÿâëÿåòñÿ ãèïîòàëàìè÷åñêèì ñèíäðîìîì è ÷òî ìåíÿåò ôàêò Êëÿéíôåëüòåðà â ïðåäëîæåíèè îïóñòèòü ÿè÷êî?
ß áû. êîíå÷íî. ïðåäëîæèëà êàðèîòèïèðîâàòü âñåõ êðèïòîðõîâ - íî âåäü ýòî áóäåò ìîå, ëè÷íîå ìíåíèå- à ÿ ïðåêðàñíî ïîíèìàþ, ÷òî ðàçóìíûå ëþäè ñ÷èòàþò äåíüãè è âîçìîæíîñòè . ×òî èìåííî Âû õîòèòå ñêàçàòü ñëîâàìè-" ñêàçòü ðîäèòåëÿì ÷òî âñå áóäåò õîðîøî" ïðè Êëàéíôåëüòåðå íåäèàãíîñèðîâàííîì? À ÷òî áóäåò ïëîõî â òîì, ÷òî ÿè÷êî áóäåò îïóùåíî - ïóñòü õîòü òðèñòà Êëàéíôåëüòåðîâ ?
ñòü ðåêîìåíäàöèÿ èìåííî â ãîä
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Ã.À. Ìåëüíè÷åíêî
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #23  
Ñòàðûé 15.11.2004, 03:07
drbormental drbormental âíå ôîðóìà Ïîë ìóæñêîé
Íà÷èíàþùèé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 23.10.2004
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 21
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 5
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 1 ðàç çà 1 ñîîáùåíèå
drbormental *
Íó..çà÷åì æå òàê ñåðäèòüñÿ??? ß âîâñå íå õîòåë ñêàçàòü, ÷òî âû ðàçó÷èëèñü ÷èòàòü òåêñòû. Íî ÿ íèãäå íå ïèñàë ÷òî â 1 ãîä íàäî îïðåäåëÿòü ËÃ. Âû ê ìîåìó ãëóáîêîìó ñîæàëåíèþ ÷èòàåòå òî, ÷òî õîòèòå ïðî÷èòàòü.
Ïî ïîâîäó äèàãíîñòèêè ãèïåðòèðåîçîâ. Äà â ðîääîìàõ äåéòâèòåëüíî äîëæíû áðàòü ýòè òåñòû òàê æå êàê ÔÊÓ. Íî åñëè ÿ Âàì ïðåäîñòàâëþ ñïèñîê äåòåé êîòîðûì ïî êàêèì ëèáî ïðè÷èíàì íå âçÿëè ýòîò àíàëèç, èëè åãî ðåçóëüòàòû íå äîâåëè äî ñâåäåíèÿ, Âû áåðåòåñü ðàçìàçàòü òàê æå ïàôîñíî êàê ïûòàåòåñü ñåé÷àñ ðàçìàçàòü ìåíÿ, âèíîâíûõ â òîì ÷òî ãîñóäàðñòâåííàÿ ïðîãðàììà íå âûïîëíÿåòñÿ?
Èëè áûòü ìîæåò Âû ïîçâîëèòå ïðèâåñòè ê Âàì íà ïðèåì ðåáåíêà ñ êðèïòîðõèçìîì è ãèïåðòèðåîçîì êîòîðîìó ñåé÷àñ óæå 6 ëåò, è ó êîòîðîãî â íàøåé ñëàâíîé ñòîëèöå íàðóøåíèÿ ôóíêöèè ùèòîâèäíîé æåëåçû âûÿâëåíû 1,5ãîäà íàçàä, ïîñëå òîãî êàê äåòñêèé àíäðîëîã ïîñëàë åãî ê ýíäîêðèíîëîãó? È æèë ýòîò ðåáåíîê íå â Ìóõîñðàíñêå, à â Ìîñêâå.Òåïåðü åãî ëå÷èò ýíäîêðèíîëîã è íå ñîâåòóåò ïîêà îïåðèðîâàòü. Ýíäîêðèíîëîãè âåäü Âàøà èåïàðõèÿ?
Áûòü ìîæåò Âàì ïåðåñëàòü ñïèñêè ïåðâè÷íî âûÿâëåííûõ íà äèñïàíñåðèçàöèè â øêîëå êðèïòîðõîâ?

Óæå èíòåðåñíî, îñîáåííî ïðî òåñòèêóëÿðíóþ ôåìèíèçàöèþ- Âû âèäåëè õîòü îäíó, ïðîñòî ëþáîïûòíî..
Äàâàéòå ñïðîñèì ó Îêóëîâà ñêîëüêî âèäåë îí?

Âû õîòèòå ñêàçàòü, ÷òî â Ìîñêâå ïîëíî íåëå÷åííûõ ïåðâè÷íûõ ãèïîòèðîçîâ ãîäîâàëîãî âîçðàñòà, è âñåì êðèïòîðõàì íàäî îïðåäåëÿòü ÒÒà èëè î òîì, ÷òî ïðè ñèíäðîìå õîòü Ïðàäåðà, õîòü Ëîðåíñà íåëüçÿ îïóñêàòü ÿè÷êî, ïîêà íå îïðåäåëèøü Ëà ?
Íåò ÿ õî÷ó ñêàçàòü ÷òî íå ñòîèò õâàòàòüñÿ çà ñêàëüïåëü íå ïîñòàâèâ äèàãíîçà.
.
È. íàêîíåö. ïî Êëàéíôåëüòåðó - ýòîò ñ-ì âñòðå÷àåòñÿ ó 1 èç 500 íîâîðîæäåííûõ, íî, ÷åðò ïîáåðè, íå ïî Ëà æå îí äèàãíîñòèðóåòñÿ â ãîä -è íèêàê íå ÿâëÿåòñÿ ãèïîòàëàìè÷åñêèì ñèíäðîìîì è ÷òî ìåíÿåò ôàêò Êëÿéíôåëüòåðà â ïðåäëîæåíèè îïóñòèòü ÿè÷êî?

Êîíå÷íî ÷åðò ïîïåðè íå ïî ËÃ, à óæ ñêîðåå ïî âûñîêîìó óðîâíþ ÔÑÃ.
ß õî÷ó ñêàçàòü, ÷òî íå âèæó ñìûñëà â ãîä áåñïëîäíîìó Êëÿéíó îïóñêàòü ÿéöî, ò.ê. ðèñê îò àíåñòåçèîëîãè÷åñêîãî ïîñîáèÿ â òàêîì ñëó÷àå íè÷åì íå îïðàâäàí. È ÿ äóìàþ ÷òî íè îäèí ðîäèòåëü åñëè åìó â ãîä îáúÿñíèòü ÷òî ñìûñë òàêîé îïåðàöèè ðàâåí ïøèêó, íå ñîãëàñèòüñÿ íà å¸ ïðîâåäåíèå
Êñòàòè õî÷ó íàïîìíèòü ÷òî ÿ íèãäå íå ïèñàë ÷òî êëÿéíôåëò - ãèïîòîëàìè÷åñêèé ñèíäðîì. Íå íàäî ìíå ÷óæèõ ëàâðîâ.
Ñ íåòåðïåíèåì æäó äàëüíåéøåãî ðàçíîñà. Ê ñîæàëåíèþ äîñòóï ê èíòåðíåòó ó ìåíÿ òîëüêî ðàç â íåäåëþ, îáåùàþ ê ñëåäóþùåìó ðàçó äîáàâèòü ìàñëà â îãîíü íåãîäîâàíèÿ, ñ óâàæåíèåì

Ñ. Áîíäàðåíêî
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #24  
Ñòàðûé 15.11.2004, 09:14
Àâàòàð äëÿ Melnichenko
Melnichenko Melnichenko âíå ôîðóìà
ÂÐÀ×
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 26.07.2001
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 117,271
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 26
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 33,621 ðàç(à) çà 32,695 ñîîáùåíèé
Melnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Óâàæàåìûé ãîñïîäèí Áîíäàðåíêî - ÿ íå ñåðæóñü, ÿ îãîð÷åíà -íàøåé ìàìå äàíû íîðìàëüíûå ðåêîìåíäàöèè óðîëîãîì. Êàêàÿ ñèëà çàñòàâëÿåò Âàñ ïå÷àòàòü êó÷ó îøèáî÷íûõ çàêëþ÷åíèé?
Ïðäîëæàåì ðàçáîð Âàøåãî ïîñëåäíåãî ïîñëàíèÿ -"Ïî ïîâîäó äèàãíîñòèêè ãèïåðòèðåîçîâ. Äà ,â ðîääîìàõ äåéòâèòåëüíî äîëæíû áðàòü ýòè òåñòû òàê æå êàê ÔÊÓ" - ×åðò ïîáåðè. íî ìû æå î ÃÈÏÎÒÈÐÎÇÀÕ , ÃÈÏÎÒÈÐÎÇÀÕ , ÃÈÏÎÒÈÐÎÇÀÕ ãîâîðèëè - íå î òèðîòîêñèêîçàõ , äà è â ðîääîìå ñêðèíèíã ïðîâîäÿò íà ÃÈÏÎÒÈÐÎÇ - äüÿâîëüñêàÿ ðàçíèöà. Áîþñü, ÷òî ñ ðåáåíêîì ñ òèðîòîêñèêîçîì. êîòîðîãî Âû ñîáèðàåòåñü ìíå íåñòè, Âû òîæå ÷òî-òî ïóòàåòå.
Òåïåðü î òåñòèêóëÿðíîé ôåìèíèçàöèè - ïðè ÷åì çäåñü ìîé äðóã ã-í Îêóëîâ?
Ïîë ðåáåíêà ñ òåñòèêóëÿðíîé ôåìèíèçàöèåé - æåíñêèé ïðè ðîæäåíèè .Äåâî÷êè ïîáåæäàþò íà êîíêóðñàõ êðàñîòû, ÝÍÖÐÀÌÍ íàáëþäàåò íå ìåíåå ñîòíè ïîäîáíûõ áîëüíûõ - íó ïîñòûäèëèñü áû ïóðãó íåñòè. ÷åñòíîå ñëîâî - Âû î íèõ âñïîìíèëè êñòàòè ïðè ðàçãîâîðå î ìàëü÷èêå ñ êðèïòîðõèçìîì ?
Áûë êîíêðåòíûé âîïðîñ,î êîíêðåòíîì ÇÄÎÐÎÂÎÌ ( òüôó, òüôó) ðåáåíêå êîíêðåòíîãî âîçðàñòà. À Âû -Ïðàäåð -Âèëëè, Ëîðåíñ è ïð. Ïðè ÷åì çäåñü âñå ýòî ?
Ðåêîìåíäàöèÿ ïðè êðèïòîðõèçìå -îðõèäîïåêèñèþ ëó÷øå âñåãî ïðîâîäèòü â 18 ìåñ.. -è òî÷êà. Ó ìåíÿ ñèë íå õâàòèò ðàçáèðàòü âñå Âàøè îøèáêè -çà÷åì Âàì íàäî áûëî âñå ýòè ïëîõî ïåðåâàðåííûå ñâåäåíèÿ èç ó÷åáíèêîâ âûïëåñêèâàòü ? Ïî ïîâîäó êîíêðåòíîãî âîïðîñà ? Çà÷åì ?
Âû çàíèìàåòå âðåìÿ , äåìîíñòðèðóÿ êàêèå- òî îãðûçêè ñâåäåíèé - çàéìèòåñü äåëîì, ïî÷èòàéòå ëèòåðàòóðó- åùå ðàç, åñëè Âû õîòèòå ïîãîâîðèòü î êðèïòîðõèçìå âîîáùå, ýòî îäèí âîïðîñ, î êîíêðåòíîì ðåáåíêå - äðóãîå äåëî, äàæå åñëè åñòü âûõîä â èíòåðíåò îäèí ðàç â íåäåëþ, Âàì ëó÷øå ó÷èòüñÿ , ÷åì ó÷èòü.Ðàçóìååòñÿ. äëÿ åíÿ êà êäëÿ ïåäàãîãà ïðåäñòàâëÿåò èíòåðåñ ïðîèñõîæäåíèå Âàøèõ îøèáîê - â ÷àñòîñòè. ñâåäåíèÿ îá Ëà - ñêà÷êå â 6 ìåñ. . êîòîðûå Âû ãäå -òî ïðèâîäèòå. îòíîñÿòñÿ ê 6 ìåñÿöàì ÂÍÓÒÐÈÓÒÐÎÁÍÎÃÎ ðàçâèòèÿ- íî ÿ ïðîñòî ôèçè÷åñêè íå â ñèëàõ èñïðàâëÿòü âñå Âàøè îãðåõè..
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Ã.À. Ìåëüíè÷åíêî
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #25  
Ñòàðûé 15.11.2004, 09:29
Àâàòàð äëÿ Melnichenko
Melnichenko Melnichenko âíå ôîðóìà
ÂÐÀ×
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 26.07.2001
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 117,271
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 26
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 33,621 ðàç(à) çà 32,695 ñîîáùåíèé
Melnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Äàâàéòå íà÷èíàòü ÷èòàòü - êñòàòè. è îá óðîâíÿõ ãîðîìíîâ.
Serum inhibin B, FSH, LH and testosterone levels before and after human chorionic gonadotropin stimulation in prepubertal boys with cryptorchidism.

Christiansen P, Andersson AM, Skakkebaek NE, Juul A.

University Department of Growth and Reproduction, GR-5064, Rigshospitalet, Denmark. [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ]

BACKGROUND: Several studies have indicated that cryptorchidism is associated with degenerative changes in both Sertoli cells and germ cells. The gonadal peptide hormone inhibin B reflects Sertoli cell function. Low inhibin B levels are found in a large portion of formerly cryptorchid men who show compromised seminiferous tubule function. It is not known if inhibin B can be used to demonstrate early damage of seminiferous tubules in prepubertal boys with cryptorchidism. METHODS: We investigated the relationship between serum levels of inhibin B, testosterone, FSH and LH in 62 prepubertal boys with uni- and bilateral cryptorchidism. Furthermore, we investigated the changes in serum levels of inhibin B and the corresponding changes in serum levels of FSH, LH and testosterone during a short course (3 weeks) of human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) injections in 18 of these cryptorchid boys. RESULTS: In the 62 prepubertal boys with uni- or bilateral cryptorchidism there were no significant differences in baseline levels (median and range) of inhibin B (88 (20-195) pg/ml vs 78 (35-182) pg/ml; not significant), LH (0.08 (<0.05-0.99) IU/l vs 0.06 (<0.05-1.61) IU/l; not significant) and FSH (0.60 (0.08-3.73) IU/l vs 0.85 (0.25-2.55); not significant) compared with 156 healthy prepubertal boys, and there were no differences in hormonal levels between boys with uni- or bilateral cryptorchidism. There was no correlation between baseline levels of inhibin B and FSH. In boys younger than 9 years, we found no correlation between baseline levels of inhibin B and LH whereas, in boys older than 9 years, baseline levels of inhibin B were positively correlated to baseline LH (Spearman rank correlation coefficient ((R(s))=0.58, P=0.03). Treatment with hCG (1500 IU intramuscularly twice weekly for 3 weeks) resulted in descensus of testes in 9 out of 18 patients. In all boys but one, irrespective of age, hCG induced a marked increase in testosterone into the adult range (from undetectable to 21.8 (7.0-35.4) nmol/l; P<0.001) and completely suppressed FSH and LH levels. Serum levels of inhibin B increased significantly from 116 (50-195) pg/ml to 147 (94-248) pg/ml (P<0.05), but not uniformly. The increase in serum levels of inhibin B was inversely correlated to baseline inhibin B (Rs=-0.52, P=0.03) and baseline FSH (R(s)=-0.59, P<0.01). CONCLUSIONS: We therefore suggest that, in the prepubertal testes, inhibin B is secreted from the prepubertal Sertoli cells following hCG, whereas early pubertal testes with more differentiated Sertoli cells are not able to secrete inhibin B in response to hCG stimulation, perhaps due to lack of germ cell-derived betaB-subunits. We found (a) normal inhibin B levels in prepubertal boys with uni- or bilateral cryptorchidism, (b) that hCG stimulated testosterone markedly and suppressed FSH and LH levels and (c) that hCG treatment stimulated inhibin B levels in the youngest cryptorchid boys. In the oldest prepubertal boys no hCG-induced changes in inhibin B were shown.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
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Ã.À. Ìåëüíè÷åíêî
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #26  
Ñòàðûé 15.11.2004, 09:47
Àâàòàð äëÿ day
day day âíå ôîðóìà
Ó÷àñòíèê ôîðóìà
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 31.03.2004
Ãîðîä: Moscow
Ñîîáùåíèé: 146
day ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåday ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåday ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåday ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Êîëëåãè, õî÷ó íåìíîãî îõëàäèòü Âàø ïûë, äîñòîéíûé ëó÷øåãî ïðèìåíåíèÿ. Çà÷åì äàâàòü òàêèå ñîâåòû íå îñìîòðåâ ðåáåíêà? Ìíå êàæåòñÿ ýòî ðèñêîâàííûì. Íå ïî íàøåìó ýòî, íå ïî-áðàçèëüñêè!
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #27  
Ñòàðûé 15.11.2004, 10:04
Àâàòàð äëÿ Melnichenko
Melnichenko Melnichenko âíå ôîðóìà
ÂÐÀ×
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 26.07.2001
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 117,271
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 26
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 33,621 ðàç(à) çà 32,695 ñîîáùåíèé
Melnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Óâàæàåìûé ÄÝÉ !Ïèñüìî ìàìû-
"Óâàæàåìûé äîêòîð, ó ìîåãî ñûíà (1,5 ãîäà) ïðàâîñòîðîííèé êðèïòîðõèçì. Çàìåòèëè ñðàçó â ðîääîìå, æäàëè ñàìîïðîèçâîëüíîãî îïóùåíèÿ äî ãîäèêà. Íàñ îñìàòðèâàë ýíäîêðèíîëîã, êîò. ñîâåòîâàë ïðîâåñòè ãîðìîíàëüíîå èññëåäîâàíèÿ äëÿ ïðîâåðêè ôóíêöèè çäîðîâîãî ÿè÷êà."
Îòâåò óðîëîãà -" Ãîðìîíàëüíîå èññëåäîâàíèå äåëàòü íå íàäî. Ìåäèêàìåíòîçíàÿ òåðàïèÿ õîðèîíè÷åñêèì ãîíàäîòðîïèíîì â âîçðàñòå ïîñëå 1 ãîäà êàê ïðàâèëî íå ýôôåêòèâíà. Îïåðàöèÿ àáñîëþòíî íåîáõîäèìà ïî 2-ì ïðè÷èíàì. Âî-ïåðâûõ, ÿè÷êî íàõîäÿùååñÿ â ïàõîâîì êàíàëå åñëè åãî íå íèçâåñòè (íå îïóñòèòü â ìîøîíêó) äî 3-õ ëåò â 70% ñëó÷àåâ ïîòåðÿåò ñïîñîáíîñòü îáðàçîâûâàòü ñïåðìàòîçîèäû è ìóæñêîé ïîëîâîé ãîðìîí òåñòîñòåðîí. Âî-âòîðûõ, àíîìàëüíî ðàñïîëîæåííîå ÿè÷êî èìååò âûñîêèå øàíñû çëîêà÷åñòâåííîãî ïåðåðîæäåíèÿ. Îïåðàöèÿ çàíèìàåò äî 2-õ ÷àñîâ ïðîâîäèòñÿ ïîä íàðêîçîì (îáùåå îáåçáîëèâàíèå, ðåáåíîê ñïèò âî âðåìÿ îïåðàöèè), ìàëü÷èê âûïèñûâàåòñÿ â äåíü îïåðàöèè èëè íà ñëåäóþùèé äåíü ïîñëå íåå. Áîëè â îáëàñòè ðàíêè áóäóò áåñïîêîèòü â ïåðâóþ íåäåëþ ïîñëå îïåðàöèè. Íå òÿíèòå ñ îïåðàöèåé!"

Êàê ýíäîêðèíîëîã,ÿ ,óâû, íå çíàþ, êàêèå èìåííî ãîðìîíû íàäî ñìîòðåòü ïîëóòîðàãîäîâàëîìó ìàëü÷èêó ñ êðèïòîðõèçìîì - è ÷òî ïîòîì äåëàòü ñ ðåçóëüòàòàìè. Ïîëó÷åííûå îòâåòû ìåíÿ íàïðÿãàþò åùå áîëüøå....
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Ã.À. Ìåëüíè÷åíêî
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #28  
Ñòàðûé 17.11.2004, 02:21
drbormental drbormental âíå ôîðóìà Ïîë ìóæñêîé
Íà÷èíàþùèé ó÷àñòíèê
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 23.10.2004
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 21
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 5
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 1 ðàç çà 1 ñîîáùåíèå
drbormental *
Óâàæàåìàÿ Ãàëèíà Àôàíàñüåâíà. Õî÷ó âíåñòè íåêîòîðóþ ÿñíîñòü è áûòü ìîæåò ðàçðåøèòü íàïðÿæåííîñòü. Íåäîðàçóìåíèå çàêëþ÷àåòñÿ â òîì, ÷òî åäèíñòâåííîå âûñêàçûâàíèå íà ýòîì ôîðóìå ïðèíàäëåæàùåå ìíå (íàñòîÿùåìó Ñ.Áîíäàðåíêî) ýòî â ðàçäåëå âàðèêîöåëå. Ïî ïîâîäó êðèïòîðõèçìà ïåðåïàëêà ñîñòîÿëàñü ìåæäó óâàæàåìûìè ìíîé ó÷àñòíèêàìè ôîðóìà è ìîåé äî÷åðüþ (ñòóäåíòêîé 1 êóðñà 17 ëåò) â ñîòðóäíè÷åñòâå ñ þíîøåé êîòîðûé ðàáîòàåò ó ìåíÿ â öåíòðå (ñòóäåíòîì 2 êóðñà 20ëåò). Íåäîãëÿäåë...ïðîñòèòå. Ïðè Ìèíèìàëüíîì óðîâíå îáðàçîâàíèÿ è ïîíàõâàòàâøèñü óìíûõ ñëîâ óñòðîèëè áóðþ â ñòàêàíå âîäû.
Åñëè æå Âàñ Ãàëèíà Àôàíàñüåâíà äåéñòâèòåëüíî èíòåðåñóåò, ÷òî äåòè èìåëè ïîä ãîðìîíàëüíûì ïðîôèëåì, òî ðàä áóäó óäîâëåòâîðèòü Âàøå ëþáîïûòñòâî:  èíôîðìàöèîííîì ïèñüìå "Îðãàíèçàöèÿ ìåäèöèíñêîé ïîìîùè ìàëü÷èêà è ïîäðîñòêàì ñ çàáîëåâàíèÿìè ðåïðîäóêòèâîé ñèñòåìû îò 2002ã ïîä èññëåäîâàíèåì ãîðìîíàëüíîãî ïðîôèëÿ òðàêòóåòñÿ êàê îïðåäåëåíèå ïëàçìåííîé êðíöåíòðàöèè òåñòîñòåðîíà, ïðîëàêòèíà, ËÃ,ÔÑÃ,ÑÒÃ,êîðòèçîëà,ÄÃÝÀ,ÄÃÀ-Ñ è äð. ïî ïîêàçàíèÿì.  òîì æå ãîäó áûëà âûïóùåíà èíñòðóêöèÿ î ìåäèöèíñêîé ñòàíäàðòèçàöèè äèàãíîñòè÷åñêîãî ïðîöåññà â äåòñêîé è ïîäðîñòêîâîé àíäðîëîãèè (ìèíçäðàâà) ãäå ðåêîìåäóþò èññëåäîâàíèå äàííîãî ïðîôèëÿ ó äåòåé ñòàðøå 10 ëåò ñ êðèïòîðõèçìîì.
 çàùèòó äåòåé ìîãó ñêàçàòü, ÷òî íå âñå ÷òî îíè ïå÷àòàëè "ïóðãà"
Êðèïòîðõîâ ïî Ìîñêâå áåãàåò ïðåäîñòàòî÷íî. Òîëüêî â Çàïàäíîì Îêðóãå çà ïðîøëûé ó÷åáíûé ãîä ïåðâè÷íî âûÿâëåíî â øêîëàõ 21 îäíîñòîðîííèõ è 10 äâóñòîðîííèõ (íà 5,5 òûñ îñìîòðåííûõ ìàëü÷èêîâ).
Øåñòèëåòíèé ìàëü÷èê ñ îäíîñòîðîííèì êðèïòîðõèçìîì è êàêîé-òî ñîïóòñòâóþùåé ïàòîëîãèåé øèòîâèäíîé æåëåçû òîæå íå âûìûñåë, íî ÿ äàæå íå ñêàæó ñåé÷àñ ñ êàêîé èìåííî.
Åùå ðàç èçâèíèòå çà âîçíèêøåå íåäîðàçóìåíèå.
P.S. Íî çà ñòàòüþ ñïàñèáî
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #29  
Ñòàðûé 17.11.2004, 04:52
Àâàòàð äëÿ Melnichenko
Melnichenko Melnichenko âíå ôîðóìà
ÂÐÀ×
      
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 26.07.2001
Ãîðîä: Ìîñêâà
Ñîîáùåíèé: 117,271
Ñêàçàë(à) ñïàñèáî: 26
Ïîáëàãîäàðèëè 33,621 ðàç(à) çà 32,695 ñîîáùåíèé
Melnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåMelnichenko ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
Îõ, ñïàñèáî,ñòàëî ëåã÷å æèòü- à òî ÿ óæ ÷óòü íå ðûäàëà.Ðàçóìååòñÿ, äåòÿì òðóäíî ïîíÿòü, ÷òî óêàçàíèÿ ïî âåäåíèþ äåòåé â ïóáåðòàòå íå îòíîñÿòñÿ ê ãîäîâàëûì- ãäå óæ èì, ìîëîäûì, çíàòü î ïîëîâîì ñîçðåâàíèè, íåêîãäà åðóíäîé çàíèìàòüñÿ.

Âïðî÷åì, ñàì ïî ñåáå ýïèçîä- ÿðêàÿ èëëþñòðàöèÿ èíòåðíåò - ïðîáëåì, ìîæåò, è åùå ïîä ÷üèìè-òî èìåíàìè äåòè èç äåòñàäà ïèøóò, òîãäà ìíîãîå ñòàíîâèòñÿ ïîíÿòíûì.


Íî è ïðèâåäåííóþ öèòàòó "òðàêòóåòñÿ êàê îïðåäåëåíèå ïëàçìåííîé êðíöåíòðàöèè òåñòîñòåðîíà, ïðîëàêòèíà, ËÃ,ÔÑÃ,ÑÒÃ,êîðòèçîëà,ÄÃÝÀ,ÄÃÀ-Ñ è äð.ñïàñàåò òîëüêî ñëîâå÷êî "ïî ïîêàçàíèÿì"....- õîòåëà áû ÿ çíàòü, çà÷åì êðèïòîðõàì ñìîòðåòü ÑÒà -åñëè èùåì äåôèöèò ÑÒÃ, òî íà÷èíàåì ñ îöåíêè ðîñòà, è áàçàëüíîãîòÑÒà ÿâíî íåäîñòàòî÷íî, çà÷åì - ïðîëàêòèí( ïðîëàêòèíîìà ó ìàëü÷èøêè íå êðèïòîðõèçìîì ïðîÿâèòüñÿ), çà÷åì îäíîêðàòíî êîðòèçîë - Êóøèíãà íå íàéäåøü. äà è êðèïòîðõèçì Êóøèíãàì íå ñâîéñòâåíåí, à Àääèñîí òóò ïðè ÷åì, çà÷åì ÄÝÀÑ - èùåì 21- ãèäðîêñèëàçíûé áëîê â ìóæñêîì ïîëå, ÷òî ëè ??? Ïðè ÷åì òóò êðèïòîðõèçì?
À ïðî êðèïòîðõîâ - áîëåå ÷åì âåðþ, áîëåå òîãî , ñ-ì Êëÿéíôåëüòåðà ( ñòîëü ñâîåîáðàçíî òðàíñêðèïèðîâàííûé íàøèìè þíûìè äðóçüÿìè). âñòðå÷àþùèéñÿ êó êàæäîãî 500 íîâîðîæäåííîãî, äîëæåí áûòü òðåòüåé ïî ÷àñòîòå ýíäîêðèíîïàòèåé, ïîýòîìó ðåàëüíîé ðàáîòû ïî âûÿâëåíèþ ýòîé ãåíåòè÷åñêîé ïàòîëîãèè ó ïîäðîñòêîâ ñòîèëî áû çàíèìàòüñÿ - íàïðàâèì ýíåðãèþ ñòóäåíòîâ â ìèðíîå ðóñëî...
À â öåëîì ïîëó÷èëîñü çàáàâíî. Ñàìîå ñìåøíîå, ÷òî ÿ ïîâåðèëà â òî, ÷òî ïèøåò ìîñêîâñêèé âðà÷ ....
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Ã.À. Ìåëüíè÷åíêî
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
  #30  
Ñòàðûé 17.11.2004, 09:22
Àâàòàð äëÿ day
day day âíå ôîðóìà
Ó÷àñòíèê ôîðóìà
 
Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ: 31.03.2004
Ãîðîä: Moscow
Ñîîáùåíèé: 146
day ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåday ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåday ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìåday ýòîò ó÷àñòíèê èìååò ïðåâîñõîäíóþ ðåïóòàöèþ íà ôîðóìå
"...à Ëóíà÷àðñêîãî, çà ôóòóðèçì, âûñå÷ü!" Â.È.Ëåíèí
Îòâåòèòü ñ öèòèðîâàíèåì
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