#766
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Íàøåë åùå âîò òàêóþ ýêçîòèêó, íî áåç àáñòðàêòà:
Am Heart J. 1949 Nov;38(5):716-31. The role of anemia in the experimental production of heart block and auricular fibrillation in the dog. HORLICK L, SURTSHIN A. ß íåñêîëüêî øèðå ïîäõîæó ê "ïðè÷èííî-ñëåäñòâåííûì". Ñàìà àíåìèÿ ìîæåò íå ïðîÿâëÿòüñÿ ÔÏ, òîãäà êàê äëÿ òèðåîòîêñèêîçà èëè ìèòðàëüíîãî ñòåíîçà ÔÏ - ÷àñòü êëèíè÷åñêîé êàðòèíû. Íî ôàêò àíåìèè ñèëüíî óõóäøàåò òå÷åíèå (ðåöèäèâû, äëèòåëüíîñòü, óòÿæåëÿþùèå ñèìïòîìû âî âðåìÿ òå÷åíèÿ: êîðîíàðíàÿ è ñåðäå÷íàÿ íåäîñòàòî÷íîñòè, êîëåáàíèÿ ÀÄ, ÷ðåçìåðíàÿ òàõèêàðäèÿ) è ïðîãíîç. Óñòðàíåíèå àíåìèè æå óëó÷øàåò êëèíèêó è ïðîãíîç. Ò.å. ïóñòü è íå ïðÿìîëèíåéíî, íî ïðè÷èííî-ñëåäñòâåííàÿ ñâÿçü åñòü... Äëÿ ïîíèìàíèÿ è ñðàâíåíèÿ. ÈÌÕÎ, ýòî êàê ñàõàðíûé äèàáåò - âðîäå íå ñåðäå÷íîå çàáîëåâàíèå, íî ãðóñòíûì êàðäèîëîãè÷åñêèì ôàêòîðîì ðèñêà ÿâëÿåòñÿ...
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Àëåêñàíäð Èâàíîâè÷ ñ ïîæåëàíèÿìè êðåïêîãî çäîðîâüÿ |
#767
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Öèòàòà:
Âñå-òàêè õî÷ó ñêàçàòü, ÷òî, íàâåðíîå, ïðàâèëüíåå îòíîñèòü àíåìèþ ê êëèíè÷åñêè çíà÷èìûì ñîïóòñòâóþùèì çàáîëåâàíèÿì/ñîñòîÿíèÿì, (ò.å. comorbidities [ëþáëþ ýòîò òåðìèí çà êðàòêîñòü è åìêîñòü], à íå ôàêòîðàì ðèñêà/ïðåäèêòîðàì ÔÏ). À, â öåëîì, ÿ äóìàþ, ÷òî îòíîñèòåëüíî òåðìèíîëîãèè ìû êàê-íèáóäü äîãîâîðèìñÿ. |
#768
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Óæî, ïîãîäèòå, äîéäåò åòî äî Ãàëèíû Àôàíàñüåâíû! Ñðàâíèòü ÑÄ è àíåìèþ, êàê ôàêòîðû ðèñêà, âñå ðàâíî, ÷òî ñðàâíèòü ... ñàìè çíàåòå, ÷òî ñ ÷åì.
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#769
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Öèòàòà:
Îáà ñîñòîÿíèÿ íå õîðîøè, îáà óõóäøàþò êàðäèîëîãè÷åñêèå õâîðîáû, îáà ìîæíî õîðîøî êîíòðîëèðîâàòü, íî îáà êîíòðîëèðóþòü ëþäè ïëîõî. Ñðàâíèâàòü ìîæíî ÷òî óãîäíî ñ ÷åì óãîäíî, íî òóò âïîëíå ðåïðåçåíòàòèâíî
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Àëåêñàíäð Èâàíîâè÷ ñ ïîæåëàíèÿìè êðåïêîãî çäîðîâüÿ |
#770
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ÑÄ - ìîäèôèöèðóåìûé ôàêòîð ðèñêà: êîíòðîëü ÑÄ óëó÷øàåò ïðîãíîç, ñ àíåìèåé íå âñå òàê ïðîñòî - íåò ïðÿìûõ äîêàçàòåëüñòâ, ÷òî åå êîððåêöèÿ óëó÷øàåò ïðîãíîç ïî êàêèì-ëèáî òâåðäûì òî÷êàì (õîòÿ íà ýðèòðîïîýòèíå áîëüíûå ñ ÕÑÍ ÷óâñòâóþò ñåáÿ ëó÷øå, íî ýòî ëå÷åíèå ñîïðîâîæäàåòñÿ ïîâûøåííûì ðèñêîì òðîìáîçîâ), ïîýòîìó âûøå àâòîðû è äåëàþò äèñêëàéìåð: "whether anemia is a mediator of adverse outcomes—and therefore potentially amenable to therapeutic intervention—or merely a marker for persons with worse prognosis related to underlying illness", à òî áóäåò ðàçî÷àðîâàíèå êàê ñ ãîìîöèñòåèíîì - îí âñåãäà áûë ïîâûøåí ó ïàöèåíòîâ ñ âûñîêèì ðèñêîì ÑÑÇ, íî åãî ñíèæåíèå íå ïðèâåëî ê ñóùåñòâåííîìó óìåíüøåíèþ òâåðäûõ òî÷åê.
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Èñêðåííå, Âàäèì Âàëåðüåâè÷. |
#771
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Óâàæàåìûé Âàäèì Âàëåðüåâè÷, ïðèìåð ñ ãîìîöèñòåèíîì - äðóãàÿ êðàéíîñòü Íà ïðàêòèêå â àìáóëàòîðíîì çâåíå ìàëî êîìó ïðèäåò â ãîëîâó åãî ïðîâåðÿòü, à óæ òåì áîëåå ïûòàòüñÿ ñíèçèòü.
Âûÿâëåííóþ æå àíåìèþ áåç âíèìàíèÿ îñòàâÿò ðåäêî. Òóò ïðîáëåìà â äðóãîé ïëîñêîñòè, ÷òî íåïðîôèëüíûå ñïåöèàëèñòû (íàïðèìåð, òå æå êàðäèîëîãè) ÷àñòî çàáûâàþò ïðîâåðÿòü, à â ñëó÷àå ïîãðàíè÷íûõ ïðîáëåì ïðîñòî ýòî èãíîðèðóþò. À åñòü èññëåäîâàíèÿ íå ýðèòðîïîýòèíà, à ïðîñòî æåëåçà ïðè ÑÑÇ?
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Àëåêñàíäð Èâàíîâè÷ ñ ïîæåëàíèÿìè êðåïêîãî çäîðîâüÿ |
#772
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Óâàæàåìûé Àëåêñàíäð Èâàíîâè÷,
Ñ ÆÄ àíåìèåé (â îòëè÷èå îò ÑÄ) ìîæåò è íå áûòü ëèíåéíîé çàâèñèìîñòè ìåæäó åå òÿæåñòüþ è ïðîãíîçîì, ñâÿçàíî ýòî ñ òåì, ÷òî åñòü ïîãðàíè÷íûé ýâèäåíñ, ÷òî ïðåáûâàíèå â æåëåçîäåôèöèòå è â ñîñòîÿíèè ïîãðàíè÷íî íîðìàëüíîãî ãåìîãëîáèíà ìîæåò èìåòü ñâîè áåíåôèòû äëÿ çäîðîâüÿ è ïðîôèëàêòèêè ÑÑÇ íà îñíîâàíèè îäíîãî êëèí. òðàéëà. Ýòî ìîæåò ñïîñîáñòâîâàòü âûðàáîòêå ýíäîãåííî ïîâûøåííîãî ýðèòðîïîýòèíà, êîòîðûé ïîõîæå ïîëîæèòåëüíî àññîöèèðóåòñÿ ñ ëó÷øèì ïðîãíîçîì (äðóãèå ãîâîðÿò, ÷òî áåíåôèòû ðàñòóò èìåííî èç-çà æåëåçîäåôèöèòà è ìåíüøåãî îáðàçîâàíèÿ âñÿêèõ ðàäèêàëîâ). Ïîýòîìó êàðäèîëîãè÷åñêèå óëó÷øåíèÿ ìîãóò áûòü òîëüêî ó òåõ, ó êîãî ãåìîãëîáèí ìåíåå 90-100 (èëè ñíèæåí íà 20-30 ã/ë). Ïîýòîìó íåäàâíèå ðåêîìåíäàöèè òàêîâû: RECOMMENDATION 1: ACP recommends using a restrictive red blood cell transfusion strategy (trigger hemoglobin threshold of 7 to 8 g/dL compared with higher hemoglobin levels) in hospitalized patients with coronary heart disease. (Grade: weak recommendation; low-quality evidence) RECOMMENDATION 2: ACP recommends against the use of erythropoiesis-stimulating agents in patients with mild to moderate anemia and congestive heart failure or coronary heart disease. (Grade: strong recommendation; moderate-quality evidence) --- Ann Intern Med. 2013 Dec 3;159(11):770-9. Treatment of anemia in patients with heart disease: a clinical practice guideline from the american college of physicians. ïî èìåííî òîëüêî æåëåçó äàííûõ ïîêà ìàëîâàòî è îñòîðîæíûå êîììåíòàðèè áóäóùåãî ãîäà òàêèå: Recently large randomized controlled trials of erythropoietin-stimulating agents (ESA) and intravenous iron supplementation therapy have been completed and shed light on treatment of anemia in HF patients. ESA therapy did not show improvement in clinical outcomes, but intravenous iron supplementation may be of benefit in improving HF symptoms. --- Curr Treat Options Cardiovasc Med. 2014 Jan;16(1):279. The Role of Treatment for Anemia as a Therapeutic Target in the Management of Chronic Heart Failure: Insights After RED-HF. Gaggin HK, Dec GW.
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Èñêðåííå, Âàäèì Âàëåðüåâè÷. |
#773
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Ó íàñ íåò âîçìîæíîñòè äåëàòü ñåðäå÷íûå òðîïîíèíû, ÊÔÊ-MB. ÝõîÊà òîëüêî ïëàòíî ðÿäîì â êëèíèêå äåëàþò è â èõ ÷àñû ïðè¸ìà.  îáùåì ñîâðåìåííûõ äèàãíîñòè÷åñêèõ áëàã ìû ëèøåíû.
Åñëè íà ÝÊà ó áîëüíîãî ñ ÈÁÑ åñòü äåïðåññèÿ ñåãìåíòà ST èëè äåïðåññèÿ ñåãìåíòà ST+êëèíè÷åñêè óõóäøåíèå, òî ñòàâèì "íåñòàáèëüíàÿ ñòåíîêàðäèÿ" è ãîñïèòàëèçèðóåì â êàðäèîëîãèþ - ïóñòü ðàçáèðàþòñÿ, ó íèõ äèàãíîñòè÷åñêèå âîçìîæíîñòè ëó÷øå. Åñëè íà ÝÊà ó áîëüíîãî ñ ÈÁÑ åñòü îòðèöàòåëüíûå T è íåò âûðàæåííîãî óõóäøåíèÿ êëèíèêè, òî ïèøåì "ñòåíîêàðäèÿ íàïðÿæåíèÿ" è íå ãîñïèòàëèçèðóåì. Ýòî ìåíÿ òàê ïðîèíñòðóêòèðîâàëè äðóãèå êàðäèîëîãè, ó íèõ ñòàæ ðàáîòû íå îäèí äåñÿòîê ëåò. Ìåíÿ ñìóùàåò òàêîé äèàãíîñòè÷åñêèé ïîäõîäý, êîãäà îðèåíòèðóåìñÿ ïðåèìóùåñòâåííî íà êëèíèêó. Ïóñòü äàæå èçìåíåíèÿ çóáöà T ìîãóò áûòü íå òîëüêî êîðîíàðíîãî õàðàêòåðà, íî êàê ìû ìîæåì íà îñíîâàíèè îäíèõ òîëüêî æàëîá è ÝÊà èñêëþ÷èòü íå Q-èíôàðêò ìèîêàðäà? Âîò 1/3 èíôàðêòîâ ïî ñòàòèñòèêå âîîáùå áåç êàêîãî òî íè áûëî íàì¸êà íà áîëü â ãðóäíîé êëåòêå ïðîòåêàåò. |
#774
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#775
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#776
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Èñêëþ÷èòü ìîæíî - îòðèöàòåëüíûé òðîïîíèíîâûé òåñò, à âîò ïîäòâåðäèòü ïðè ïîëîæèòåëüíîì òðîïîíèíå – ýòî, äåéñòâèòåëüíî, âîïðîñ.
Ëó÷øèé âûõîä ïðè ìàëåéøåì ïîäîçðåíèè íà ÎÊÑ îòïðàâëÿòü â ñòàöèîíàð. |
#777
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Âñåõ áîëüíûõ ñ ÎÊÑ è ñ ïðåäïîëîæèòåëüíûì ÎÊÑ íàäî ãîñïèòàëèçèðîâàòü â ñïåöèàëèçèðîâàííîå îòäåëåíèå. Ðàçâå ýòî ó êîãî-òî âûçûâàåò âîïðîñû?
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#778
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Ïî ìîåìó âñå î÷åíü ïðîñòî,
Óâåðåí - â ÁÈÒ. Íå óâåðåí - â îòäåëåíèå êàðäèîëîãèè ïîä íàáëþäåíèå. Ëó÷øå ïîëó÷èòü ïî øàïêå óòðîì íà ïÿòèìèíóòêå çà ïåðåñòðàõîâêó, ÷åì õîäèòü â ñóä çà ëèøíþþ óâåðåííîñòü. |
#779
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#780
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Åñòü êëèíèêà ÎÊÑ - óâåëè÷åíèå ÷àñòîòû è ïðîäîëæèòåëüíîñòè áîëåé çà ãðóäèíîé.
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