#31
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Öèòàòà:
----- Âñå ýòî íå èìååò îòíîøåíèÿ ê òåìå. Ìåíÿ âïîëíå óñòðàèâàåò Âàøà ôîðìóëèðîâêà, óâàæàåìûé äîêòîð Ñàìîéëåíêî. Ìíå íå ñîâñåì ïîíÿòíî, ïî÷åìó èìåííî ìåòîäû ôèçè÷åñêîãî âîçäåéñòâèÿ äëÿ ñíèæåíèÿ Ò ïðè ÎÐÂÈ âûçâàëè òàêóþ "áóðíóþ" äèñêóññèþ. Õîòåëîñü áû äîáàâèòü, ÷òî ãèïåðòåðìèÿ - ýòî ñîâåðøåííî îñîáîå ñîñòîÿíèå, ñ ñîâåðøåííî äðóãèì ìåõàíèçìîì, è òàì ìåòîäû ôèçè÷åñêîãî âîçäåéñòâèÿ ( êàê òî: ëåäÿíàÿ âàííà, ëåä íà ìàãèñòðàëüíûå ñîñóäû è ò.ï. ) ïðèìåíÿþòñÿ è îïðàâäàíû. Àíòèïèðåòèêè, ïðè ýòîì, íåýôôåêòèâíû. [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ] |
#32
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Öèòàòà:
Ïðîêîíñóëüòðîâàâøèñü ñ êëèíè÷åñêèìè ôàðìàêîëîãàìè è òîêñèêîëîãàìè, âûÿñíèëà ñëåäóþùåå: - àëëåðãè÷åñêàÿ ðåàêöèÿ íà ïàðàöåòàìîë - âåùü êðàéíå ðåäêàÿ. - çíà÷åíèå ïðè âûáîðå äðóãîãî ïðåïàðàòà èìååò âèä àëëåðãè÷åñêîé ðåàêöèè, à èìåííî: åñëè àëëåðãè÷åñêàÿ ðåàêöèÿ íà ïàðàöåòàìîë ïðîÿâëÿåòñÿ â âèäå ñûïè, çóäà è ò.ï., òî åãî ìîæíî çàìåíèòü èáóïðîôåíîì. Åñëè àëëåðãè÷åñêàÿ ðåàêöèÿ íà ïàðàöåòàìîë ïðîÿâèëàñü â âèäå àíãèîýäåìû èëè áðîíõîñïàçìà, òî, ñëåäóÿ ïðèíöèïó "íå íàâðåäè", ëó÷øå îòêàçàòüñÿ îò èñïîëüçîâàíèÿ NSAID, äî òåõ ïîð, ïîêà íå áóäåò äîêàçàíî, ÷òî ó ðåáåíêà íåò íà íèõ ïåðåêðåñòíîé àëëåðãèè. Òåõíè÷åñêè ýòî äåëàåòñÿ òàê - ðåáåíêó, ïåðåíåñøåìó àíãèîýäåìó èëè àíàôèëàêòè÷åñêèé øîê íà ïàðàöåòàìîë, äåëàåòñÿ àëëåðãîïðîáà íà NSAID â óñëîâèÿõ ðåàíèìàöèîííîãî îòäåëåíèÿ. |
#33
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Óâàæàåìàÿ ruptv! Õî÷ó âàñ çàâåðèòü, ÷òî íå èìåþ íèêàêîé ñâÿçè ñ àäìèíèñòðàöèåé. Î âàøåì èìåíè ÿ äîãàäàëñÿ, èñïîëüçîâàâ ìíîãîâàðèàíòíûé àíàëèç. Ïðîñòàÿ ëîãèêà.
![]() Ê ñîæàëåíèþ, âèæó ïî âàøèì ïîñòàì, ÷òî ìîè âîïðîñû è àðãóìåíòû âûçûâàþò ó âàñ ðàçäðàæåíèå. Ïîæàëóéñòà, ïîòåðïèòå. Ýòî ìîå ïîñëåäíåå ñîîáùåíèå. Ïîñêîëüêó ÷óâñòâóþ, íå òîëüêî âû ðàçäðàæåíû. Íå çíàþ, êàê âû ðàçëè÷àåòå, êàêàÿ òåìïåðàòóðà èçìåíÿåòñÿ ó ðåáåíêà, íàõîäÿùåãîñÿ â æàðêîì ïîìåùåíèè. Åñëè ó íèõ íå èçìåíÿåòñÿ òåìïåðàòóðà ÿäðà (ïî÷åìó âäðóã), òî ìíå íå ïîíÿòåí ìåõàíèçì ðàçâèòèÿ òåïëîâûõ óäàðîâ è ñìåðòè îò æàðû. Åñëè âåðèòü ó÷åáíèêó, òî ãèïåðòåðìèÿ – ýòî óâåëè÷åíèå òåìïåðàòóðû ÿäðà òåëà, íå îáóñëîâëåííîå ïîâûøåíèåì ãèïîòàëàìè÷åñêîé óñòàíîâêè. Ïðèìåíåíèå ïàðàöåòàìîëà äåéñòâèòåëüíî, ïðè ýòîì áåññìûñëåííî. Öèòàòà:
![]() Ïðåäëîæó ñâîþ âåðñèþ. Ïðèìåíåíèå ïàðàöåòàìîëà èëè èáóïðîôåíà äëÿ áîðüáû ñ ëèõîðàäêîé ÿâëÿåòñÿ íàèáîëåå ýôôåêòèâíûì ìåòîäîì. Ïðèìåíåíèå ôèçè÷åñêèõ ìåòîäîâ îõëàæäåíèÿ, òàêèõ êàê îáòèðàíèå ãóáêîé, ñìî÷åííîé â òåïëîé âîäå, ïîãðóæåíèå â âàííó ñ òåïëîé âîäîé, ìåíåå ýôôåêòèâíî ïî ñðàâíåíèþ ñ àíòèïèðåòèêàìè. Èõ èñïîëüçîâàíèå áåçîïàñíî, íî âîçìîæíî, ìîæåò âûçâàòü äèñêîìôîðò ó ðåáåíêà. Paracetamol vrs. Sponging In the seven studies which included these interventions, paracetamol alone was found to be more effective in reducing the child's temperature when compared to sponging alone. In only three studies however, a statistically significant difference between these two treatments only became evident after one hour or more Comfort of the Child Five studies measured discomfort as an outcome of the interventions. All five studies used physical signs as a measure. No statistical comparisons can be made between the studies as each study used a different rating scale and the signs assessed varied, although some were common, eg crying. Two studies reported a significant difference in observed discomfort between those receiving only paracetamol medication and those being sponged, while another reported there was no significant difference in discomfort between these two interventions. One of the studies provided descriptive statistics on which to compare assessed discomfort. Using a rating of good, fair and poor, 66% of the children being sponged with tepid water were rated as being fair or poor compared to 22% of children receiving only medication. In the remaining study discomfort was measured but the outcomes were not reported. One study assessed whether the child accepted being sponged. This could be considered an indirect measure of comfort. Of the children being sponged by their parents 46% were assessed as objecting somewhat to the procedure but an equal number apparently enjoyed the warm bath Ñîâìåñòíîå ïðèìåíåíèå ïàðàöåòàìîëà è îáòèðàíèÿ ãóáêîé áîëåå ýôôåêòèâíî ñíèæàåò âûñîêóþ òåìïåðàòóðó. Ïðè ýòîì âîçìîæíî áîëåå áûñòðàÿ íîðìàëèçàöèÿ òåìïåðàòóðû. Paracetamol + Sponging vrs. Paracetamol All eight studies evaluating these interventions concluded that the combination of paracetamol plus sponging was more effective in lowering temperature than paracetamol alone. In four studies a significant difference was identified. In those studies, the mean reduction in temperature in groups receiving medication plus sponging ranged from 1.3°C to 1.7°C. Three of these studies were conducted in tropical climates: Bangkok, Hawaii, and Singapore and included information on room temperatures and humidity. Although the room temperatures were not notably high, the humidity levels were higher than the remaining study sites would normally experience. In those groups receiving only paracetamol, the mean reductions on final measurement ranged from 0.9°C to 1.3°C. Another three studies demonstrated no significant difference between the interventions. The remaining study did not provide information on statistical difference between the two treatments. [Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ] Ïðèìåíåíèå äðóãèõ ôèçè÷åñêèõ ìåòîäîâ îõëàæäåíèÿ (ëüäà, õîëîäíî âîäû) íå äîëæíû ïðèìåíÿòüñÿ ðóòèííî è âîçìîæíî, ìîæåò áûòü ðåêîìåíäîâàíî äëÿ áîðüáû ñ ãèïåðòåðìèåé, ïðè êîòîðîé èñïîëüçîâàíèå ïàðàöåòàìîëà íåýôôåêòèâíî. Î ñåáÿ çàìå÷ó, ÷òî èìåþ îïûò ( íå î÷åíü áîëüøîé) ïîãðóæåíèÿ áåñïîêîÿùèõñÿ ìëàäåíöåâ â òåïëóþ âàííó. Êàê íè ñòðàííî, íî îíè áûñòðî óñïîêàèâàëèñü è íèêàêèõ ïðèçíàêîâ äèñêîìôîðòà íå èñïûòûâàëè. Ðàçóìíîå ïðèìåíåíèå íåêîòîðûõ ôèçè÷åñêèõ ìåòîäîâ îõëàæäåíèÿ ïîçâîëÿåò èçáåæàòü íåîáîñíîâàííîãî ïðèìåíåíèÿ æàðîïîíèæàþùèõ ñðåäñòâ. Íî ýòî ê ñëîâó. Ïðîøó ïðîùåíèå ó âñåõ ïðèñóòñòâóþùèõ çà ñâîå çàíóäñòâî. ![]() ![]() Âñåãî äîáðîãî! (ñ) |
#34
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Öèòàòà:
Öèòàòà:
Öèòàòà:
Áîëåå òîãî, ÿ Âàì óæå ñêàçàëà, ÷òî ïîëüçóþñü ýòèì ñïîñîáîì, êîãäà ðåáåíîê íå âîçðàæàåò. Öèòàòà:
![]() ------  ëþáîì ñëó÷àå, õîðîøî, ÷òî äèñêóññèÿ èìåëà ìåñòî áûòü ![]() ![]() |
#35
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Öèòàòà:
Âî-ïåðâûõ, ïàðàöåòàìîë... íå ñîâñåì, òàê ñêàçàòü, ÍÏÂÑ, è õèìè÷åñêàÿ ñòðóêòóðà åãî íåñêîëüêî îòëè÷àåòñÿ îò ÍÏÂÑ ðàçíûõ ãðóïï. Âî-âòîðûõ, åñëè ÿ ïðàâèëüíî âñïîìèíàþ, íåñêîëüêèìè ïîñòàìè ðàíüøå Âû óïîìèíàëè ïðî íåèììóíîëîãè÷åñêèå ïåðåêðåñòíûå ðåàêöèè, ïîñêîëüêó ïåðåêðåñòíûõ àëëåðãè÷åñêèõ ðåàêöèé ìåæäó ïàðàöåòàìîëîì è ÍÏÂÑ, íàñêîëüêî ìíå èçâåñòíî, îïèñàíî íå áûëî. Òàê âîò, ñîáñòâåííî âîïðîñ - êàê èìåííî òåõíè÷åñêè ïðåäëàãàåòñÿ âûïîëíÿòü àëëåðãîïðîáó íà ÍÏÂÑ (êðîìå óñëîâèé ðåàíèìàöèîííîãî îòäåëåíèÿ) - êóäà ýêñïîíèðîâàòü ÍÏÂÑ, â êàêîì ðàçâåäåíèè, êàê èíòåðïðåòèðîâàòü ðåçóëüòàòû? È ìàëåíüêèé äîïîëíèòåëüíûé âîïðîñ - êàê Âû äóìàåòå, à âîîáùå "îâ÷èíêà âûäåëêè ñòîèò" (ò.å. ñòîèò ëè ïîäâåðãàòü ðåáåíêà ïîòåíöèàëüíîìó ðèñêó â óñëîâèÿõ ðåàíèìàöèîííîãî îòäåëåíèÿ) è ïðè êàêèõ óñëîâèÿõ òàêîé ðèñê áóäåò îïðàâäàí? (ß ïûòàþñü äëÿ ñåáÿ îïðåäåëèòü òîò êîíòèíãåíò, äëÿ êîòîðîãî ðåçóëüòàòû òàêîé ïðîáû æèçíåííî íåîáõîäèìû, ò.å. àëüòåðíàòèâû ÍÏÂÑ íåò...) |
#36
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Öèòàòà:
Åñëè ñðåäè âðà÷åé ôîðóìà åñòü ñïåöèàëèñòû, êîòîðûå çíàþò îòâåò íà Âàøè âîïðîñû, áóäó ðàäà ïîñëóøàòü èõ ìíåíèå. |