#31
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Íåò íèêàêèõ ñåêðåòîâ â ýòîì ïëàíå. Âîïðîñ âàì çàäàþ èç ×åëÿáèíñêà. À ñïîð ó íàñ âîçíèê íà ôîíå âàøåãî ñîîáùåíèÿ. Îäèí ÷åëîâåê íà íàøåì ôîðóìå ïðèâåë âàøå ñîîáùåíèÿ â êà÷åñòâå èëëþñòðàöèè ñâîèõ ñëîâ, äîêàçàòåëüñòâà òàê ñêàçàòü.
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#32
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×åëÿáèíñê - çàìå÷àòåëüíûé ãîðîä! Áóäó òàì áëèæå ê ëåòó...
Åùå ðàç. Ïîçèöèÿ 1 Ïîíèìàòü ä-ç, êàê îòêëîíåíèå ëàáîðàòîðíûõ ïîêàçàòåëé îò ýòàëîííûõ âåëè÷èí íåâîçìîæíî, èáî íèêòî è íèêîãäà ñåðüåçíî íîðìàëüíûå ïîêàçàòåëè ýòèõ âåëè÷èí íå îïðåäåëÿë. Ñòîèò ïðåäïîëîæèòü, ÷òî ñîñòàâ ìèêðîôëîðû êèøå÷íèêà çàâèñèò îò õàðàêòåðà ïèòàíèÿ, óñëîâèé ïðîæèâàíèÿ, óðîâíÿ ãèãèíû, ïðèíèìåìûõ 9ïî äðóãèì ïîâîäàì ëåêàðñòâ etc. Òî åñòü íîðìû ó êàæäîãî ñâîè. Ñîãëàñíû?
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Ñ óâàæåíèåì, Âàëåðèé Âàëåðüåâè÷ Ñàìîéëåíêî |
#33
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Îê, ðàç óæ òûêàåòå ìåíÿ íîñîì â Äîêàçàòåëüíîñòü - äàâàéòå áóäåì äîêàçàòåëüíû. Äåëàåì ïðîñòóþ ïðîöåäóðó - íàáèðàåì âî âñåìè ëþáèìîì Ïàáìåäå disbacteriosis è ñìîòðèì ïåðâóþ æå âûñêà÷èâøóþ ññûëêó.
[Ññûëêè äîñòóïíû òîëüêî çàðåãèñòðèðîâàííûì ïîëüçîâàòåëÿì ] [Microflora of gastrointestinal tract in patients with chronic cholecystitis] [Article in Russian] [No authors listed] AIM: Assessment of quantitative and qualitative characteristics of gastrointestinal microflora in patients with chronic cholecystitis. MATERIALS AND METHODS: Bacteriological analysis of biopsy samples of esophageal and gastric mucosae as well as stool samples was performed in 10 healthy volunteers and 28 patients with chronic cholecystitis. RESULTS: Opportunistic microorganisms are acquiring greater significance in formation of gastrointestinal microbiocenosis. Significant increase of both isolation rate and density of gastrointestinal tract colonization by staphylococci, enterobacteriae and anaerobic microorganisms was revealed. CONCLUSION: Obtained results showed abnormalities of microbiocenosis of esophageal and gastric mucosae and presence of intestinal disbacteriosis of different degrees of intensity. |
#34
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Íó òàê óæå èäèòå äî êîíöà - îöåíèòå êà÷åñòâî ýòîãî Article in Russian.
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Lead, follow, or get out of the way. — Thomas Paine |
#35
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#36
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Äàæå íå áóäåì ãîâîðèòü î äèçàéíå èññëåäîâàíèÿ, ïîñìîòðèì åãî öåëü - îòêóäà âçÿò ìàòåðèàë è êàêèì ìåòîäîì.
Ýòàê ìû è õåëèêîáàêòåð äèñáàêòåðèîçîì íàçîâåì. (À èíôåêöèîííûé ìåíèíãèò - äèñáàêòåðèîçîì ìîçãà). Upd. Êòî ãäå è êàê óñòàíîâèë "ïðåäåëû ðàçóìíîãî ñîäåðæàíèÿ êèøå÷íèêà" (ñ) ? Êàêàÿ ðàçíèöà ñêîëüêî ñåãîäíÿ ýøåðèõèé â êàëå, åñëè ïàöèåíò çäîðîâ? Êàêàÿ ñâÿçü ìåæäó îáñåìåíåíèåì êàëà è íàñåëåíèåì êèøå÷íèêà?
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Ñ óâàæåíèåì, Âàëåðèé Âàëåðüåâè÷ Ñàìîéëåíêî |
#37
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Öèòàòà:
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#38
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Öèòàòà:
È íå çàáûâàéòå, ÷òî êèøå÷íàÿ ôëîðà çàâèñèò îò îñîáåííîñòåé ïèòàíèÿ, ò.å. "ýòíè÷íà" |
#39
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Ê ñîæàëåíèþ, à ìîæåò ê ñ÷àñòüþ? äëÿ òîãî, ÷òî áû áûòü óâåðåííûì â "èçìåíåíèè íîðìû" íàäî áûòü óâåðåííûì â âàëèäíîñòè ýòîé íîðìû.
Ñîøëþñü, ÷òîû íå êîïèðîâàòü http://forums.rusmedserv.com/showpos...0&postcount=96
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Ñ óâàæåíèåì, Âàëåðèé Âàëåðüåâè÷ Ñàìîéëåíêî |
#40
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Óâàæàåìûå âðà÷è, õî÷ó ïîää÷åðêíóòü - ó ìåíÿ íåò öåëè ïîñïîðèòü, äîêàçàòü ÷üþ-òî íåïðàâîòó. ß õî÷ó ëèøü ïîíÿòü, äëÿ ñåáÿ. Ïî÷åìó íåò òàêîãî ÿâëåíèÿ "äèñáàêòåðèîç" è âñå. Ïîéìó - áóäó äðóãèì ðàññêàçûâàòü, è óáåæäàòü â òîì ÷òî ýòî òàê.
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#41
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Äîðîãîé êîëëåãà, ìû ïðåêðàñíî ýòî ïîíèìàåì - èìåííî ïîýòîìó áåñåäà ïåðåâàëèëà íà 5 äåñÿòîê ïîñòîâ.
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Ñ óâàæåíèåì, Âàëåðèé Âàëåðüåâè÷ Ñàìîéëåíêî |
#42
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Öèòàòà:
Âû ïðîñòî ñêàæèòå - ìîæåò ÿ è ïðàâäà ÷åãî çàáûë ñ ìåäèöèíñêîãî èíñòèòóòà. Óæåëü è ïðàâäà íåò íîðì ñîäåðæàíèÿ ìèêðîîðãàíèçìîâ â ðàçëè÷íûõ îáëîñòÿõ îðãàíèçìà? |
#43
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#44
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Ñìîòðÿ êàêèõ ìèêðîîðãàíèçìîâ è ñìîòðÿ â êàêèõ îáëàñòÿõ... È åùå ñìîòðÿ äëÿ ÷åãî (à âäðóã äîêòîðñêàÿ ãîðèò) è êàê (à âäðóã 3 ïàöèåíòîâ èññëåäîâàëè) ýòà íîðìà óñòàíîâëåíà. Ê ïðèìåðó (ëþáèìîìó ïðèìåðó) - çíàÿ êòî, êàê è çà÷åì óñòàíîâèë íîðìû òåìïåðàòóðû òåëà íåòðóäíî ïîíÿòü, ïî÷åìó ó 5% âçðîñëîãî íàñåëåíèÿ â ïîêîå Ò òåëà âûøå 37 ãðàäóñîâ. È ýòî íå íàäî ëå÷èòü...
ß íå âñòðå÷àë âàëèäíûõ íîðì ñîäåðæàíèÿ ì/î â êàëîâûõ ìàññàõ çäîðîâîãî ÷åëîâåêà. Âîçìîæíî, êîëëåãè äîïîëíÿò (íî 5-ëåòíèé îïûò çíàêîìñòâà, ïîäñêàçûâàåò, ÷òî âðÿä ëè)
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Ñ óâàæåíèåì, Âàëåðèé Âàëåðüåâè÷ Ñàìîéëåíêî |
#45
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ïî ïîâîäó ÑÐÊ ó ìåíÿ ìíåíèå ñâîå åùå ñ èíñòèòóòà. Âîò ýòîò êàê ðàç äèàãíîç ÿ è ñ÷èòàþ "ïîìîéêîé". Íà ÑÐÊ ìíîãèå âðà÷è ñâàëèâàþò îáû÷íî âñå ÷òî óãîäíî. Äî â÷åðàøíåãî äíÿ ïî ïîâîäó äèñáàêòåðèîçà ó ìåíÿ íå áûëî ñîìíåíèé (â ïëàíå ñóùåñòâîâàíèÿ äàííîãî ñîñòîÿíèÿ( ÍÅ ÄÈÀÃÍÎÇÀ!)). Ïîñëå îáùåíèÿ íà âàøåì ôîðóìå, ÷åñòíî ïðèçíàþñü, ïîÿâèëèñü.
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