#31
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#32
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Ìíå ÷åñ ãîâîðÿ âîîáùå ýòî êàæåòñÿ àáñóðäíûì...ñòîÿòü è òóïî ñìîòðåòü íà çàìåðçàþùåãî ïàöèåíòà...
Ìîæåò åñòü êàêèå îáÿçûâàþùèå ðåãëàìåíòèðóþùèå ïðèêàçû? Èëè ýòî òîëüêî ìåñòíûå çàìîðî÷êè - âñå-òàêè ñòàâêà àíåñòåçèîëîãà è àíåñòåçèñòêè, ñ âûñøåé êàòåãîðèåé íå òàêèå óæ ìàëåíüêèå äåíüãè? Êàê ñ ýòèì ïî òó ñòîðîíó Àòëàíòèêè è â Åâðîïå? Âíóòðèïîïî÷íûå ââåäåíèÿ â ïðèíöèïå ìàëîïðèÿòíû + ïîâûøåíèÿ ÊÔÊ, õîòü áåç MB è òðîïîíèíà, íî âñå æå ñìóùàþùèå... Íó òàáëåòêó äèàçåïàìà âíóòü îñîáî ïåðåæèâàþùèì ëàäíî... Òî Vlad34: ñóïðàñòèí ñâÿòîå è íå ïîñòèãàåòñÿ ñóåòíûì ðàçóìîì èáî èçíà÷àëüíî-äàííîå åñòü... |
#33
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Öèòàòà:
Íàèáîëåå èíòåðåñíûå ðåêîìåíäàöèè ïî ãåìîñòàçó ïðèâåäåíû â êíèãå Òîïîëÿ, Ãðèôôèíà (â ïåðåâîäå À. Îõîòèíà - èçä-âî Ïðàêòèêà): âðåìÿ ãåìîñòàçà (ìèí)= äèàìåòð êàòåòåðà (F)õ3; âðåìÿ ïîñëåäóþùåãî ïîñòåëüíîãî ðåæèìà(÷àñ) = äèàìåòð êàòåòåðà (F) (ïðî äàâÿùóþ ïîâÿçêó óïîìèíàíèé íåò âîîáùå). Ðå÷ü èäåò î áîëüíûõ ïîñëå ÊÀÃ; â ãëàâå î ÒÁÊÀ ñëîâ î ãåìîñòàçå íåò :-( |
#34
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Öèòàòà:
Ïîìèìî óïîìÿíóòîé "âååðíîé" òåõíèêè ïóíêöèè â ìåõàíèçìå ðàçâèòèÿ òðîìáîçà áåäðåííîé àðòåðèè/âåíû, íàâåðíî ñëåäóåò òàêæå óïîìÿíóòü âåñüìà ïëîòíîå íàêëàäûâàåìûå ïîâÿçêè, êîãäà èñ÷åçàåò ïóëüñ íà ïåðèôåðèè (ìðàìîðíàÿ íîãà) èëè ïåðåäàâëèâàåòñÿ âåíà (ñèíþøíîñòü êîíå÷íîñòè íà ôîíå íîðìàëüíîãî ïóëüñà). Íàèáîëåå ÷àñòî ýòî ïðîèñõîäèò, åñëè èñïîëüçóåòñÿ øèðîêèé âàëèê íà ôîíå ãåìàòîìû, ðàçâèâøåéñÿ ïðè ãåìîñòàçå. Òðîìáîç àðòåðèé è âåí ïîñëå çîíäèðîâàíèÿ âèäåë íå ðàç, íî âîò ÷òîá ýòî ïðèâîäèëî ê ôàòàëüíîé èëè êëèíè÷åñêè âûÿâëåííîé ýìáîëèè ëåãî÷íîé àðòåðèè ñëûøó âïåðâûå...÷òî âïðî÷åì ëèøíèé ðàç ïîäòâåðæäàåò ïîñëîâèöó: "âåê æèâè - âåê ó÷èñü" Àíãèîãðàôè÷åñêàÿ áèáëèÿ ïî ïîâîäó ïîñòãåìîñòàòè÷åñêîãî ïåðèîäà âåñüìà íå ìíîãîñîëîâíà: "After compression has been completed, the puncture site and surrounding area are then inspected for hematoma formation and active oozing, and the quality of the distal pulse is assessed before application of a bandage. The patient is usually kept at bed rest with the leg straight for 4 to 6 hours following percutaneous femoral catheterization (20), with a sandbag in place over the puncture site for the first few hours after catheter removal. In patients at higher risk for rebleeding (those with hypertension, obesity, or aortic regurgitation), application of a pressure bandage in addition to the sandbag may be of value. Elevation of the head and chest to 30 to 45° by the electrical or manual bed control, without muscular effort by the patient, will greatly increase the patient's comfort and will not increase the risk of local bleeding. The only reason to insist that the patient lie completely flat is if there is significant orthostatic hypotension. Before ambulation and again before discharge, the puncture site should be reinspected for recurrent bleeding, hematoma formation, development of a bruit suggestive of pseudoaneurysm or A-V fistula formation, or loss of distal pulses." |
#35
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#36
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#37
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Çäåñü áûë ìîäåðàòîð.
Ïðîñüáà ïåðåíåñòè âûÿñíåíèå ëè÷íûõ îòíîøåíèé â ëè÷íûå æå ñîîáùåíèÿ. Öèòàòà:
Îäíàêî ñîâåðøåííî òî÷íî âíóòðèáîëüíè÷íûå ÒÝËÀ ó êàðäèîáîëüíûõ ñëó÷àþòñÿ è ÷àùå 4-õ ðàç â ãîä. È ïðîèñõîäèò ýòî, êàê ïðàâèëî, íå òîëüêî áåç ïîâÿçîê, íî è áåç ðåíòãåíîõèðóðãîâ. Ïðîçâó÷àâøèå äîâîäû è ðàçìûøëåíèÿ óáåäèòåëüíû, íî âåäü íå òîëüêî ïîâÿçêè îíè êàñàþòñÿ. Òàê âåäü ìîæíî äî àáñóðäà äîéòè: ïî÷åìó áû íå îáâèíèòü ìàðëåâûå øàðèêè, øòàìïóåìûå ñåñòðàìè íà êîëåíêå (ÿâíî äàëåêî íå GMP) â «Post-PCI» ýíäîêàðäèòàõ?.. Êåéñîâ ìîæíî ìíîãî ïîäîáðàòü – áëàãî âðåìÿ íàáëþäåíèÿ 24-ìÿ ÷àñàìè ïîñëå èíòåðâåíöèè íå îãðàíè÷èâàåòñÿ… Óâàæàåìûé thorn, äèñêîìôîðò îò ïîâÿçêè ëåãêî èñïðàâèòü. Äàæå åñëè íåò ýëàñòè÷åñêîãî áèíòà, - ïîâÿçêó ìîæíî ïðîñòî ïåðåíàëîæèòü, îñëàáèâ äàâëåíèå, è íàêëàäûâàÿ òóðû íà ïîÿñíèöó íåñêîëüêî êàóäàëüíåå, ~ íà øèðèíó 2/3 áèíòà. Ïðè äîëæíîé ñíîðîâêå è ìåäñåñòðå – ýòî äåëî 1 ìèíóòû (áåç îíûõ – äâóõ ìèíóò ) Êñòàòè, à ïî÷åìó Âû íå óäàëÿåòå ïîâÿçêó ó ñòðàäàëüöåâ, åñëè ñ÷èòàåòå åå ëèøíåé? Öèòàòà:
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#38
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Öèòàòà:
Ïðåìåäèêàöèÿ, ïðàâäà, áåç ñóïðàñòèíà: àòðîïèí, ñèáàçîí, èíîãäà + ïðîìåäîë/òðàìàäîë. Äåëàåòñÿ âñåãäà òîëüêî ïåðåä çîíäèðîâàíèåì ñåðäöà; ïîíèìàþ, ÷òî âåñ÷ü íåîáÿçàòåëüíàÿ, íî ðàáîòàòü ñ ñåäàòèðîâàííûìè áîëüíûìè íàìíîãî êîìôîðòíåå. Öèòàòà:
P.S.: åñòü ïðåäëîæåíèå – ì.á. äèñêóññèþ ïðî äðåìó÷åå ìðàêîáåñèå ÊÐÐÕ âûíåñòè â îòäåëüíûé òîïèê? +) |
#39
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Öèòàòà:
À ïîâÿçêè óäàëÿþ... íàøè ÐÕè ðåêîìåíäóþò 17 ÷àñîâ, ÿ ñíèìàþ ÷åðåç 8 - 12, íî åñëè ÷òî ñëó÷èòñÿ òòò (ñëó÷àéíîñòü, ñîâïàäåíèå) - âñå ñ ðàäîñòüþ ñïèøóò íà ìåíÿ... |
#40
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À ÿ íå ïîíèìàþ, ïî÷åìó â ìîèõ ïîñòàõ íàõîäÿò àãðåññèþ, êîãäà ÿ, íàîáîðîò, íàñòðîåí êðàéíå ìèðîëþáèâî
Íè â ÷åì îñîáåííî íå óáåæäàþ. Ïûòàþñü îáîñíîâàòü, ÷òî äèñêîìôîðò ïîáåäèì. È äà, ÿ äåéñòâèòåëüíî ñ÷èòàþ, ÷òî ïîâÿçêà è ïðîñòûå ðåêîìåíäàöèè ê íåé ïîçâîëÿþò èçáåæàòü ìíîãèõ íåïðèÿòíîñòåé. |
#41
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óâàæàåìû êîëëåãà cerebellum, äî ñåãî ìîìåíòà ðàçäåë êàðäèîëîãèè ÿâëÿëñÿ î÷åíü ìàëî ìîäåðèðóåìûì, ïîòîìó êàê äèñêóññèè âåëèñü â ïðèëè÷åñòâóþùåì òîíå. î÷åíü áû íå õîòåëîñü ÷òî áû äàííàÿ ñèòóàöèÿ ïîìåíÿëàñü, ïîñåìó - ëè÷íûå âîïðîñû ïðîñüáà ïåðåíåñòè â ñèñòåìó ëè÷íûõ ñîîáùåíèé.
íàäåþñü è â äàëüíåéøåì íà ïðîÿâëåíèÿ êðàéíåãî ìèðîëþáèÿ. ñ óâàæåíèåì ê âûñîêèì äèñêóòèðóþùèì ñòîðîíàì. ìîäåðàòîð. |
#42
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Öèòàòà:
 ðàáîòå ëþáûõ îòäåëåíèé ìîæíî íàéòè ìåñòíûå òðàäèöèè èëè îñîáåííîñòè, êîòîðûå íå íåñóò ïîä ñîáîé ïîëåçíîé ñîñòàâëÿþùåé, ìàòåðèàëüíî çàòðàòíû, ëèøåíû çäðàâîãî ñìûñëà, à èíîãäà ïðîñòî âðåäíû. ß äóìàþ ìíîãî÷èñëåííûå ïðèìåðû ïðèâîäèòü íå íóæíî. Íà äàííûé ìîìåíò â äîñòóïíîé ëèòåðàòóðå, â òîì ÷èñëå áëàãîäàðÿ ïðèâåäåííûì êîëëåãàìè ññûëêàì, íåò îáúåêòèâíûõ äàííûõ, ÷òî íàëîæåíèå äàâÿùåé ïîâÿçêè ïîñëå óäàëåíèÿ óñòðîéñòâà èç áåäðåííîé àðòåðèè è äëèòåëüíûé ïîñòåëüíûé ðåæèì èìåþò ïîä ñîáîé êàêèå-ëèáî îñíîâàíèÿ. Äîâîä, ÷òî ïîâÿçêà ïðåêðàñíî ïåðåíîñèòñÿ áîëüíûìè (â ÷åì ó ìåíÿ ëè÷íî åñòü áîëüøèå ñîìíåíèÿ) è íå ïðèâîäèò ê îñëîæíåíèÿì (÷òî, íàâåðíîå, âîçìîæíî) íå ÿâëÿåòñÿ äîñòàòî÷íûì àðãóìåíòîì â ïîëüçó åå ïðèìåíåíèÿ. |
#43
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Ìîè 5 êîïååê...  ñâîåé ïðàêòèêå íèêîãäà íå ïîëüçîâàëñÿ äàâÿùèìè ïîâÿçêàìè, õîòÿ êîëëåãè èç áëèæàéøèõ áîëüíèö èìè àêòèâíî ïîëüçîâàëèñü. Íà ìîé çàìûëåííûé âçãëÿä, áîëüøîé ïîëüçû â ñíèæåíèè ÷àñòîòû îñëîæíåíèé ìåñòà ïóíêöèè ïîâÿçêà íå íåñåò.
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#44
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÷èòàë ïðî ïîâÿçêè...ìíîãî äóìàë... îáåùàþ, ÷òî ïîïðîáóåì îáõîäèòüñÿ áåç íèõ, íî âñå æå íå òàê ðàäèêàëüíî, êàê ó Ìýéî:
"...After catheterization, the arterial sheath was removed, and manual compression was applied for 10 to 15 minutes or until hemostasis was achieved. All nursing staff undergo initial training for sheath and access site management as well as an annual competency assessment, but no additional training was required before this early ambulation protocol was implemented. No hemostatic patches were used. Bed rest was required for 45 to 60 minutes before ambulation. According to our ambulation protocol, the patient walks 100 feet while being observed, and a nurse subsequently assesses the patient and access site. If no problems are apparent at that time, the patient walks another 100 feet. On discharge, a contact telephone number is provided for patients to use in the event of delayed complications at the access site. If the patient experienced rebleeding during the bed rest period before ambulation, then ambulation was delayed until 1 hour after cessation of bleeding. Complications were assessed by catheterization laboratory nurses and the clinical care team. Patients were discharged 60 minutes after successful ambulation..." Åñëè ÷òî-íèáóäü ñëó÷èòñÿ (äàæå ïðè õîðîøåé ãîäîâîé ñòàòèñòèêå îñëîæíåíèé), òî ÿ óæå ïðåäñòàâëÿþ ðåàêöèþ áîëüíûõ èëè êîëëåã èç äðóãèõ îòäåëåíèé: "Ïðåäñòàâëÿåøü, çàñòàâèëè áîëüíîãî ÷åðåç ÷àñ íàñèëüíî õîäèòü ïî êîðèäîðó - òóò âäðóã êðîâèùà êàê çàõëåùåò!" èëè "Çàïèñàëè ìîáèëüíèê, ÷åðåç ÷àñ ïîñëå Êà âûïðîâîäèëè äîìîé, ïîòîì áàö-ìîðå êðîâè, äîêòîð òðóáêó íå ñíèìàåò - ñ ìåäñåñòðàìè ëÿñû òî÷èò, òàêñèñò àðòåðèþ çàæèìàåò - ìàòåðèòñÿ, ïî ïðîáêàì åëå åäåò îáðàòíî ê äóøåãóáöàì..." Íååò, ìû ëó÷øå ïîêà êàðàòåëÿìè îñòàíåìñÿ ÇÛ. Óâàæàåìûå êîëëåãè! À êòî êàê îáðàáàòûâàåò ðóêè ïåðåä PCI? Ïîìíþ, ìåíÿ â îäíîé èç cath lab ñòàðóøêà-ìåäñåñòðà çàñòàâëÿëà äîëãî-äîëãî ìûòü ðóêè â äâóõ òàçèêàõ ïî Ñïàñîêóêîöêîìó...à âîò íà Çàïàäå åñòü êëèíèêè, ãäå õèðóðãè ðàáîòàþò áåç ìàñîê, ïåð÷àòêè îäåâàþò ñàìè íà ñòîëèêå è ÷óòü ëè íå â óëè÷íîé îáóâè îïåðèðóþò...êàê ó âàñ? |
#45
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 ïðîøëîì ãîäó ïî îòäåëåíèþ ïðîøëî îêîëî 2000 äàâÿùèõ ïîâÿçîê ñ êâà÷àìè, íè îäíîé ÒÝËÀ íå áûëî, âîîáùå çà áîëåå ÷åì 10 ëåòíèé îïûò ðàáîòû (áîëåå 5000 ÊÀà è 1000 ÒÁÊÀ, ïåðèôåðèþ íå ñ÷èòàþ) ÒÝËÀ íå áûëî. Ìû àíàëèçèðîâàëè ðåçóëüòàòû äâóõ öåíòðîâ ÍÈÈ êàðäèîëîãèè ã. Òþìåíü è ÎÊÁ Õàíòû-Ìàíñèéñêà, íà 20 000 ÊÀà è îêîëî 10 000 ÒÁÊÀ íè îäíîé ÒÝËÀ. Íà ìîé âçãëÿä ýòà ïðîáëåìà âûñîñàíà èç ïàëüöà ñïåöèàëèñòàìè êîòîðûå â èíòåðâåíöèîííîé êàðäèîëîãèè íå ñîâñåì êîìïåòåíòíû. Êñòàòè ïî çàøèâàëêàì, íàø îïûò ñâûøå 600 ïåðêëîóçîâ, 50 ñóòóð, 50 ñòàðêëîóçîâ, 50 êîëàãåííîâûõ ãåìàñòàòè÷åñêèõ óñòðîéñòâ. Ñ îãëÿäêîé íàçàä ìîæíî ñêàçàòü ÷òî çàøèâàëêè óâåëè÷èâàþò ïðîïóñêíóþ ñïîñîáíîñòü (âðåìÿ êîìïðåññèè 1 ìèí)ðåíòãåíîîïåðàöèîííîé, ñðàâíèâàÿ ñ êîìïðåññèåé ïîâÿçêîé ïî ïîñòïóíêöèîííûì ãåìàòîìàì è àíåâðèçìàì äîñòîâåðíîé ðàçíèöû íåò.
Ðóêè îáðàáàòûâàåì äîñòàòî÷íî ïðîñòî ìîåì ñïåöèàëüíûì æèäêèì àíòèáàêòåðèàëüíûì ìûëîì, ñîäåðæàùèì ðàçíûå ïîëåçíûå äîáàâêè äëÿ êîæè ðóê, âûòèðàåì íàñóõî áóìàæíûìè ïîëîòåíöàìè è îáðàáàòûâàåì àíòèñåïòèêîì "Èçàñåïòèê".  îòíîøåíèè ìàñîê è øàïîê ïîä íàñòðîåíèå è â çàâèñèìîñòè êàêèå ïàöèåíòû, åñòü òàêèå ÷òî õî÷åòñÿ äâå ìàñêè íàäåòü, îáóâü òà â êîòîðîé îáû÷íî õîäèøü ïî áîëüíèöå, èíîãäà íàäåâàåøü öåëàôàíîâûå áàõèëû, êîãäà ïîñëå î÷åðåäíîé ïðîöåäóðû ñëó÷àéíî âûïà÷êàåøü êðîâüþ áåëûå êîæàíûå êðîñîâêè. Ó íàñ òàê ñëîæèëîñü â îïðåàöèîííîé 1 ñåñòðà è âðà÷, 2 ñåñòðà íà ïîäõâàòå, ïîýòîìó ÷àñòî äåëàÿ öèôðîâóþ îáðàáîòêó èëè ÂÑÓÇÈ, êàòåòåðíóþ òðîìáýêòìèþ Àíãèîäæåòîì, îäåâàþ ïîâåðõ ïåð÷àòîê äðóãèå âûïîëíÿþ íå "ñòåðèëüíóþ" ðàáîòó ñíèìàþ âåðõíèå ïåð÷àòêè è ïðîäîëæàþ ðàáîòó. |